Private industry is not always the superior solution.

[Supposn]

Private industry is not always the superior solution:

There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Gonzomin]

Privatizing is almost never a benefit to society as corporatizing education, healthcare and prisons have clearly demonstrated. It is the constant refrain of nationalizing is bad and corporatizing is good that has driven the people astray. It is not true.

 

[jimmymccready]

The commercialization of education, healthcare, and prisons have enriched the few at the misery of many and the pocketbooks of all.

 

[Into the Night]

Private industry is not always the superior solution:

There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

Respectfully, Supposn

Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
* Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
* Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
* One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
* Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
* Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
* Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
* Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
* Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
* Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
* Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
* Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
* Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.

 

[Scut Farkus]

Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
* Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
* Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
* One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
* Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
* Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
* Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
* Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
* Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
* Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
* Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
* Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
* Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.

with banks being bailed out your so called capitalism doesn't even exist. fool.

 

[Into the Night]

with banks being bailed out your so called capitalism doesn't even exist. fool.

Yes it does. There are a hell of a lot more businesses than the banks, fool.

 

[Scut Farkus]

Yes it does. There are a hell of a lot more businesses than the banks, fool.

you're an idiot. the economy is all connected. when you're bailing things out , it just becomes an elaborate totalitarian charade.

 

[Bobb]

Privatizing is almost never a benefit to society as corporatizing education, healthcare and prisons have clearly demonstrated. It is the constant refrain of nationalizing is bad and corporatizing is good that has driven the people astray. It is not true.

Gonzomoron, you're a fcking moron. The free market does everyone of those things far better than the government. Those industries you named, education, medical, and prison, are mostly controlled by the government and the private companies have the sht regulated out of them, so they are not good examples of the free market. And, yet the government does a far worse job in those sectors than private companies. We spent a million dollars on your education and family welfare, but you're still a fcking moron, thanks to public schools.

 

[Bobb]

Gonzomin, by what mechanism does the government do all these things better than the private sector?

 

[Scut Farkus]

Gonzomoron, you're a fcking moron. The free market does everyone of those things far better than the government. Those industries you named, education, medical, and prison, are mostly controlled by the government and the private companies have the sht regulated out of them, so they are not good examples of the free market. And, yet the government does a far worse job in those sectors than private companies. We spent a million dollars on your education and family welfare, but you're still a fcking moron, thanks to public schools.

theoretically maybe, but in reality, large corporations and rich people have achieved state capture and use their power to turn society into a killing machine of degradation and corruption that benefits the few. now that this is becoming obvious, they've gone totalitarian, based on overblown hysteria over a manmade virus.

 

[archives]

Okay, let's look at some of these comparisons, since they exist in history in the United States:
* Wifi is privately provided for. You can walk into any McDonald's or Starbucks and use AT&T Wifi for free.
* Medical insurance is privately paid for. It was reasonably priced, until the government started meddling with it through things like ObamaCare. The ObamaCare insurance system is collapsing even now.
* One of the railroads build across the U.S. was built entirely with private funds, and operated the same way. The U.S. government built two other lines around the same time. This single private line was able to deliver freight faster and and at about 1/2 the cost of the government railroads. Much of this freight was grain going overseas. The federal government passed price control laws to force all railroads (including the private one) to charge a specific fee, and shut off exports of the grain.
* Passenger rail is impractical in the United States because people would rather drive or fly on private airlines. It is the aircraft that killed passenger service in the U.S. The only passenger service is now government owned, and it provides terrible service that is costly.
* Here in Washington, we used to have private ferries that would regularly cross Puget Sound. The State also had some routes, but wanted to expand. The private ferries were in their way, since people tended to prefer them due to their better service and lower cost. Washington did the same thing the federal government did to the railroads. One by one the private ferries failed, to be replaced by State ferries.
* Airlines are public transportation. They are privately owned.

Now to the things that government is authorized to do; maintain bridges, roads, and the postal system:
* Roads are not built by the government. They are improved by the government. Roads begin as paths, than cart tracks (dirt roads), then eventually become paved. These affect everyone, not just those that drive on them. Everyone can benefit, so most folks have agreed to give their State governments this authority. Related to this authority is maintaining the postal system, a function authorized to the federal government in its Constitution. In each case, materials to build those roads comes from private sources most of the time, and the roads themselves are built and marked by private companies that have contracted with the government.
* Bridges are part of building the roads, and again are built by private contractors in most cases.
* Public schools are a national joke, due to the interference from the NEA (an unconstitutional federal program). The illiteracy of graduates from these schools is well known. Private schools are doing a much better job.
* Healthcare is largely private. It is the best healthcare system in the world.
* Health insurance is still largely private, despite the attempts to unconstitutionally usurp the market by the federal government through ObamaCare.
* Private scientists are creating new theories for engineers to develop new computers, create and improve chemical processes, find ways of cleaning up and preserving the environment (that actually work!), improve cars, aircraft, trucks, locomotives, ships, and other vehicles, improve materials manufacturing for everything from plastics, to metal, to even wood. Public scientists are too busy scamming for some useless study and pushing the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green.

The United States is not a democracy and has never been one. There are currently no democracies anywhere on Earth. The United States is organized as a federated republic. I'll take capitalism any time.

Always love reading these conservative understandings of the public vs private, "night" really lays on above

Can you name one bridge that was built by private interests? We all know that the contracts to build any road or bridge are given to private companies, but without the Gov't those bridges and roads would not exist. The "beginning as paths" is beautiful

Private schools, not all private schools, are doing a good job, but keep in mind private schools select their students, something public schools can not do, private schools should do a good job

Certainly the most expensive health care in the world, and it is the best, if you can afford it

What percentage of scientists are working totally funded by private interests, and those that are, are their goals to employ Science to improve man's life or to find new ways to insure further profits for those that employ them

And, the old semantics again, the US is a Democrat Republic, we elect our representatives democratically to serve our interest in a republic framework of Gov't

 

[archives]

Private industry is not always the superior solution:

There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

Respectfully, Supposn

It, probably capitalism in general, isn't equipped to address a national crisis in an expedient manner, just as in the World Wars we have fought, relying on the markets to get what is needed now to combat the threat has shown to be failing

 

[Bobb]

Always love reading these conservative understandings of the public vs private, "night" really lays on above

"Night" is a neocon idiot. The government is behind practically every bridge built. Bridges and roads are practically all in the realm of government. Public employees (planning) are at the top and the bottom (moving dirt). Sometimes private contractors are used, but it's not a big factor.

Private schools, not all private schools, are doing a good job, but keep in mind private schools select their students, something public schools can not do, private schools should do a good job

Let's just exclude the elitist private schools, which are a small minority of private schools. Private schools usually have a fraction of the money of public schools. They're not selective. In fact, one of the two big reasons parents send their kids to private schools is because they're doing poorly in the public schools. (The other big reason is to keep their children out of the government's antichrist schools.)

Certainly the most expensive health care in the world, and it is the best, if you can afford it

The high cost of American medical care makes it preposterous to call it the best in the world. But, it's expensive because the government regulates the sht out of it and pays for most using it. Canada has a better medical system than does the US.

What percentage of scientists are working totally funded by private interests, and those that are, are their goals to employ Science to improve man's life or to find new ways to insure further profits for those that employ them

Profit is the motivator that makes the world go around.

Most "scientists" work at government universities. But, like public schools, when the government is throwing so much money at something, it makes no financial sense of anyone to put much effort into doing it privately. No one sends their kids to private school to save money. That doesn't mean the private sector couldn't do it better. If I'm a company that wants some specific science done, I'd just offer a grant to a university to do it.

 

[Into the Night]

you're an idiot. the economy is all connected. when you're bailing things out , it just becomes an elaborate totalitarian charade.

Compositional error fallacy. Banks are not the economy.

 

[Into the Night]

theoretically maybe, but in reality, large corporations and rich people have achieved state capture and use their power to turn society into a killing machine of degradation and corruption that benefits the few. now that this is becoming obvious, they've gone totalitarian, based on overblown hysteria over a manmade virus.

Corporations are not being totalitarian. It is governors passing these bans, unconstitutionally.

 

[Into the Night]

Always love reading these conservative understandings of the public vs private, "night" really lays on above

Can you name one bridge that was built by private interests?

Sure. The 43rd St bridge, built by funding from Microsoft, not government, and the company that built it was built by Selby Construction, Selby also built various bridges along I-5. Those were government contracts. I-5 in Washington is a bypass for SR-99, which started out as a horse trail.

We all know that the contracts to build any road or bridge are given to private companies, but without the Gov't those bridges and roads would not exist.

They did exist even before the government existed. They were trails, paths, with some privately built bridges, some private ferries, and some just fording across a river. Most neighborhoods have privately built streets, put in when the neighborhood itself was built, by private investors and contractors.

Private schools, not all private schools, are doing a good job, but keep in mind private schools select their students, something public schools can not do, private schools should do a good job

Divisional error fallacy. I never said all private schools. Private schools do not necessarily select their students. If one is willing to pay the school for a student to matriculate, they will take the student.

Certainly the most expensive health care in the world, and it is the best, if you can afford it

Cheaper than anywhere else. You pay for what you are willing to pay for, and nothing else.

What percentage of scientists are working totally funded by private interests, and those that are, are their goals to employ Science to improve man's life or to find new ways to insure further profits for those that employ them

False dichotomy fallacy.

And, the old semantics again, the US is a Democrat Republic,

There is no such thing. A democracy has no constitution. It is mob rule. A republic has a constitution. A federated republic (such as the United States) has layers of government, each a republic. Elections are all conducted according to how they are set forth in the constitutions. The authority the elected officer has is also set forth in the same document, and the term he serves is also set forth in the same document.

we elect our representatives democratically to serve our interest in a republic framework of Gov't

Nope. We elect ALL our representatives according to the constitution at that layer of government.

Democracies have no constitution at all. It is simply mob rule. There are no elected representatives. It is unstable government. It usually dissolves into a dictatorship or oligarchy before long. There are currently no surviving democracies anywhere in the world today.

 

[Into the Night]

It, probably capitalism in general, isn't equipped to address a national crisis in an expedient manner, just as in the World Wars we have fought, relying on the markets to get what is needed now to combat the threat has shown to be failing

What threat?
An infection rate of 0.00135% of the population, and a death rate of 0.000273% of the population is an insignificant threat. This is not a pandemic. It is not even an epidemic. It is not even a situation.

What governors are doing is failing.

The revolts are building even now. People are going out more and more and effectively telling their governors to blow it out their left nostril.

Masks do not stop a virus.
6 feet does not stop a virus.

UV light (such as longer days bring) stops a virus.
Immune systems stop a virus.
Sanitation stops this particular virus.

It is capitalism that built the ventilators. It is capitalism that built all the hospital equipment. It is capitalism that built the masks, the gloves, the alcohol, the hand sanitizers, and the toilet paper. It is capitalism that makes the tonic water and the zinc supplements, a treatment that seems to work well against those suffering the worst aspects of this virus.

We fought WW2 using armies and a navy and an air force that were paid for by the federal government (one of their duties, as outlined in the Constitution of the United States), but they used equipment build by capitalism. The uniforms, the ammunition, the guns, the tanks, the jeeps, the ships and all their equipment aboard them, the aircraft and all their equipment aboard them, the radios used by them to communicate, and the radar systems used to guide them. Capitalism provided the food for them. It provided even the compasses and maps armies would use to traverse cross country.

 

[Into the Night]

"Night" is a neocon idiot. The government is behind practically every bridge built. Bridges and roads are practically all in the realm of government. Public employees (planning) are at the top and the bottom (moving dirt). Sometimes private contractors are used, but it's not a big factor.

Public employees do not build bridges (other than an occasional overpass). They may do some road construction and maintenance of existing bridges, but that's all.

Let's just exclude the elitist private schools, which are a small minority of private schools.

Fine.

Private schools usually have a fraction of the money of public schools. They're not selective. In fact, one of the two big reasons parents send their kids to private schools is because they're doing poorly in the public schools. (The other big reason is to keep their children out of the government's antichrist schools.)

You don't get to speak for parents. You only get to speak for you.

The high cost of American medical care makes it preposterous to call it the best in the world.

It is the best in the world. Pretty cheap too. We only pay for what we want to pay for.

But, it's expensive

Nope. We only pay for what we want to pay for.

because the government regulates the sht out of it and pays for most using it.

Nope. Government regulates the health insurance industry and even attempted to nationalize it. Disaster.

Canada has a better medical system than does the US.

The Canadian healthcare system has failed. That's why Canadians pay for private care. They don't get it from the government, despite their huge taxes for it their 'free' healthcare.

Profit is the motivator that makes the world go around.

Correct.

Most "scientists" work at government universities.

WRONG. Most scientists work at private companies.

But, like public schools, when the government is throwing so much money at something, it makes no financial sense of anyone to put much effort into doing it privately.

They already ARE doing it privately.

No one sends their kids to private school to save money.

Correct. They send their kids to private school to get a better education than the wasteland that is the public school system.

That doesn't mean the private sector couldn't do it better.

Yes it does.

If I'm a company that wants some specific science done, I'd just offer a grant to a university to do it.

If you pay a 'university' scientist to do the research, you have hired that scientist.

Remember, science is not a scientist or any group of scientists. Science itself is not even people at all.

 

[archives]

Sure. The 43rd St bridge, built by funding from Microsoft, not government, and the company that built it was built by Selby Construction, Selby also built various bridges along I-5. Those were government contracts. I-5 in Washington is a bypass for SR-99, which started out as a horse trail.
They did exist even before the government existed. They were trails, paths, with some privately built bridges, some private ferries, and some just fording across a river. Most neighborhoods have privately built streets, put in when the neighborhood itself was built, by private investors and contractors.

Divisional error fallacy. I never said all private schools. Private schools do not necessarily select their students. If one is willing to pay the school for a student to matriculate, they will take the student.

Cheaper than anywhere else. You pay for what you are willing to pay for, and nothing else.

False dichotomy fallacy.

There is no such thing. A democracy has no constitution. It is mob rule. A republic has a constitution. A federated republic (such as the United States) has layers of government, each a republic. Elections are all conducted according to how they are set forth in the constitutions. The authority the elected officer has is also set forth in the same document, and the term he serves is also set forth in the same document.

Nope. We elect ALL our representatives according to the constitution at that layer of government.

Democracies have no constitution at all. It is simply mob rule. There are no elected representatives. It is unstable government. It usually dissolves into a dictatorship or oligarchy before long. There are currently no surviving democracies anywhere in the world today.

Now how long did you have to Google to come up with one bridge, we got umpteen bridges and you are telling us this one bridge proves private interests build bridges not Government? Private companies fill Gov't contracts to build a bridge, but without the Gov't intiating and funding the project those companies are not going to build a bridge on its own

Those paths would still be largely paths if it weren't for the Gov't building roads over them

Private schools so select thier students, they are not forced to take anyone they don't want, and also, they can flush students, something a public school can not do, private schools should do better given those realities

And if you can't afford it, you don't get it, certainly doesn't sound like a characterization of what is suppose to be the best

More "fallacy" bullshit

Wrong. The Constitution establishes the form of Gov't, the Republic, and we democratically elected out representatives to that Republic, via majority vote, the means the Founding Fathers selected and added to the Constitution.

 

[Celticguy]

Privatizing is almost never a benefit to society as corporatizing education, healthcare and prisons have clearly demonstrated. It is the constant refrain of nationalizing is bad and corporatizing is good that has driven the people astray. It is not true.

The benefit to society is to perform the task more efficiently.