Proving/Disproving the Afterlife

Yurt said:
go back and read the OP....it is about seeing something or not :pke:

go fish and reread ib1's contention that one must see him or a miracle....
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Empirical evidence is the only way one can "know" something. Everything else is just a gut feeling, a suspicion, faith, or other such nonsense. The only empirical evidence you could get of God would be to witness a suspension of the natural laws (read: miracle) or see him for yourself. That is the ONLY way you can "know" something like this. Anyone who hasn't witnessed any such thing and claims to "know" God exists is lying. They suspect he exists. Saying you "know" he exists is intentionally mischaracterizing their experience unless they see him or witness a miracle.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Empirical evidence is the only way one can "know" something. Everything else is just a gut feeling, a suspicion, faith, or other such nonsense. The only empirical evidence you could get of God would be to witness a suspension of the natural laws (read: miracle) or see him for yourself. That is the ONLY way you can "know" something like this. Anyone who hasn't witnessed any such thing and claims to "know" God exists is lying. They suspect he exists. Saying you "know" he exists is intentionally mischaracterizing their experience unless they see him or witness a miracle.
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what about the gospels? they claim to have seen him....thus they know...

your only retort will be...they are lying

you can't have an honest debate if you are going to call everyone liars
 
Yurt said:
what about the gospels? they claim to have seen him....thus they know...

your only retort will be...they are lying

you can't have an honest debate if you are going to call everyone liars
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It doesn't matter what they think they saw in the most illiterate, most backwards part of the world at a time when humanity was still in its crying, balling, fearful infancy. They tell you about the jews being enslaved in Egypt. They claim to have seen that. Then the jews left into the desert for 40 years. They claim that happened too. Of course, there's 0 archeological evidence of this. Thousands of people wandering around for 40 years and there's no evidence of it. HMMM. Could it be the entire thing was made up? Where's Mount Sinai? Do you really think the story of Noaha's Arc is anything but a lie/fable?

The fact is, YOU haven't seen God and haven't witnessed a miracle. You have no reason to believe him. You haven't seen any evidence from anyone else to lead you to believe it either. You don't KNOW, then, that he exists. You cannot. You suspect it. To say you know is a blatant lie, which being one of the 10 major sins probably doesn't earn you any respect from the Big Man.
 
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Dixie said:
But for some reason, anti-God people spend an enormous amount of time and energy attempting to refute what they claim not to believe in.
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lol idiot, maybe it's because everyone over the age of six knows the Easter bunny doesn't exist, whereas 3 billion (and it could be more) believe in a god and use him to justify fascist policies, wars, and regressive thought. maybe that's why dixie.. maybe.
 
Grind said:
use him to justify fascist policies, wars, and regressive thought .
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you know, you really ought to bring yourself up to date....there's been some good things happening since the Crusades.....we got cars now....and telephones....and that whole New World thing?....well, there's people here now.....
 
ib1yysguy said:
It doesn't matter what they think they saw in the most illiterate, most backwards part of the world at a time when humanity was still in its crying, balling, fearful infancy. They tell you about the jews being enslaved in Egypt. They claim to have seen that. Then the jews left into the desert for 40 years. They claim that happened too. Of course, there's 0 archeological evidence of this. Thousands of people wandering around for 40 years and there's no evidence of it. HMMM. Could it be the entire thing was made up? Where's Mount Sinai? Do you really think the story of Noaha's Arc is anything but a lie/fable?

The fact is, YOU haven't seen God and haven't witnessed a miracle. You have no reason to believe him. You haven't seen any evidence from anyone else to lead you to believe it either. You don't KNOW, then, that he exists. You cannot. You suspect it. To say you know is a blatant lie, which being one of the 10 major sins probably doesn't earn you any respect from the Big Man.
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dude....calm down

i never said i knew, i said THEY knew...

since you are going to just insult them and call them liars, there really is no point in discussing the matter with you....i bet you believe old history books though, becuase they aren't religious :rolleyes:

you didn't see the world created, yet you believe without seeing and based on what other people tell you, that something besides a creator made the world and the life in it....
 
ib1yysguy said:
Where's Mount Sinai?
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????....
Geography

Mount Sinai is a 2285 m-high mountain in Saint Katherine city, in Sinai region. It is next to Mount St. Catherine (at 2,629 m,[6] the tallest peak on the Sinai peninsula)[7]. It is surrounded on all sides by higher peaks of the mountain range.
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[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Sinai[/ame]
 
Yurt said:
dude....calm down

i never said i knew, i said THEY knew...

since you are going to just insult them and call them liars, there really is no point in discussing the matter with you....i bet you believe old history books though, becuase they aren't religious :rolleyes:

you didn't see the world created, yet you believe without seeing and based on what other people tell you, that something besides a creator made the world and the life in it....
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The Bible isn't a history book. Real history books refute the claims of the bible, in fact. That is the most retarded comparison ever.

There's a difference between evidence based belief and faith.

The Bible is clearly lying in many instances. There's no reason to believe one part more than any other part. The part about Johnah being eaten by a big fish and living in its belly for a few weeks before being barfed out is no more or less valid than someone witnessing God in the same book. It's all allegorical, and much of it is just entirely made up.
 
ib1yysguy said:
The Bible isn't a history book. Real history books refute the claims of the bible, in fact. That is the most retarded comparison ever.

There's a difference between evidence based belief and faith.

The Bible is clearly lying in many instances. There's no reason to believe one part more than any other part. The part about Johnah being eaten by a big fish and living in its belly for a few weeks before being barfed out is no more or less valid than someone witnessing God in the same book. It's all allegorical, and much of it is just entirely made up.
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the bible is a history book as well as religious texts....and you're dead wrong, there are "real" history books (as you call them) that support the bible...

but i'm sure you'll continuing your famous debate style of declaring everything you dont' agree with "retarded" as if that word makes you right....i guess you saying retarded enough times does make you right

if god can create the earth, surely jonah surviving in a whale is no big deal...
 
Yurt said:
the bible is a history book as well as religious texts....and you're dead wrong, there are "real" history books (as you call them) that support the bible...

but i'm sure you'll continuing your famous debate style of declaring everything you dont' agree with "retarded" as if that word makes you right....i guess you saying retarded enough times does make you right

if god can create the earth, surely jonah surviving in a whale is no big deal...
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No, not every claim in the bible is refuted by real history books. That's not what I said. Much of it is. Like the jews in Egypt, for instance. Like the extensive lineages coming from Adam and Eve, which are totally bogus.

Yeah, if God can create the earth in six days and create plants and animals before creating light, then surely he can make a man live in a fish. It's just a shame neither of them happened, cause that would be really incredible.

It's really hilarious you would forget yourself and go and equate the creation myth with someone living in a fish, as though it helps your argument.
 
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history[/ame]

The first historical problem of the bible has to do with the creation of the earth 4000-6000 years ago. It starts there, just about on page one.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
the Jews have never considered those OT lists to be genealogies, why should we?....they are lists, showing relatedness, not detail....
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Those lists are precisely what are used by creationist retards to date the earth at 4000-6000 years old. They're what are used by Christians to establish the lineage of Christ from Abraham.
 
ib1yysguy said:
Those lists are precisely what are used by creationist retards to date the earth at 4000-6000 years old. They're what are used by Christians to establish the lineage of Christ from Abraham.
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so what?.....because 1 to 2% of Christians believe something which isn't true you get to apply it to all of us?.....besides, there are major errors in Ussher's methodology.....not the least of which is the assumption that since Genesis 3 is only one page away from Genesis 2 that the fall happened on the 8th day after creation.....you cannot prove from scriptures that Adam and Eve didn't spend 10 million years in the Garden of Eden.....
 
ib1yysguy said:
No, not every claim in the bible is refuted by real history books. That's not what I said. Much of it is. Like the jews in Egypt, for instance. Like the extensive lineages coming from Adam and Eve, which are totally bogus.

Yeah, if God can create the earth in six days and create plants and animals before creating light, then surely he can make a man live in a fish. It's just a shame neither of them happened, cause that would be really incredible.

It's really hilarious you would forget yourself and go and equate the creation myth with someone living in a fish, as though it helps your argument.
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what is hilarious is that you think surviving in a whale is more difficult to believe than creation...

you believe the earth is billions of years old because someone told you so, you weren't there...yet you mock those who believe in christ based on similar reasoning...

outside history books support that jesus lived...you want to believe professors and other old history books yet you won't believe the gospels....that is your faith and bias, based not in fact, but in belief
 
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