Into the Night
Verified User
Rebellion is safety????
PSAKI: "Even after you’re vaccinated, social distancing / masks will be essential
- Thread starter dukkha
- Start date
Rebellion is safety????
Into the Night
Verified User
Science is not experts. It does not use supporting evidence. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. Covid19 has nothing to do with science.
You are getting tedious.....You are a smart fella.....you know damn well what I was saying.....either deal with that or else drive on please.
I was trained in the East as I have been so very clear about...you must make allowances.....I insist.
The evidence has been provided literally thousands of times. Kill yourself if you still haven't seen it.
LIAR
We've been posting the science for a year now...so this is purely an act of bad faith on your part.
What evidence and what questions are you looking for or are asking?
Because running your mouth on a comment thread ain't it. So organize your thoughts and ask better questions, not questions that have already been answered ad nauseum.
You fucking pussy.
Into the Night
Verified User
I know damn well what you were saying. You were walking into a trap, because you are trying to speak Liberal, using words that actually have no solid meaning.
It is very important to remember what science is and what it is not. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. Nothing more. Nothing less. I makes no use of supporting evidence. It makes no use of consensus. It is not a website, government agency, university, data, observation producing that data, book, study, paper, regulation, society, academy, license, degree, disease, research, expert, scientist, or group of scientists. It is not people at all.
Science is just the theories themselves. They must be falsifiable. That's it. That's all.
Be careful of 'experts'. After all, 'experts' can be found to say anything. Using an 'expert' is not a proof. It is simply another way of referencing some vague authority with no name. This is a fallacy known as a void authority fallacy. At the very least, demand specific names of people, and remember that everyone has their own opinion, and that is also not a proof.
In philosophy, you must present your own argument and it's reasoning. You cannot borrow the argument of another and use it as your own. As you know here on JPP, almost no one does that. You don't need to continue to fall into that trap.
Therefore the question is open: what sort of evidence are you looking for? What will you accept as valid evidence? It's certainly not science, since there are no theories of science about covid19. I'm actually trying to help you present better arguments.
Into the Night
Verified User
Where? You have never presented any evidence. If I kill myself, that's only an excuse to relieve you of the responsibility to provide the evidence.
Into the Night
Verified User
You have posted nothing but insults and vague references to 'The Science'. You cannot specify which theory of science you are referring to, since you are denying science.
Where is your evidence? If you want to spew data as evidence, you must show who collected that data, when it was collected, for what purpose, and the method used in collecting it. Evidence is not a proof.
Into the Night
Verified User
I asked him this same question. Expect a response soon from him.
You have presented no evidence at all. You use vague references to 'The Science', but you cannot specify which theory of science you are using. You point to random numbers as a proof of your conclusion. That is not evidence. That is an argument from randU fallacy.
All of your conclusions use the conclusion itself as the predicate. That is a circular argument, or an Argument of Faith. You try to make a proof of that circular argument. That is fundamentalism. Your religion (The Church of Covid) is inherently fundamentalist by nature.
Show valid evidence. No Holy Links. Show your evidence here and how you obtained it.
That is the opposite of a gaffe. It is what the experts are saying, and it is the policy of the USA (and most of the world).
The fact is the vaccines will probably slow the spread of Covid-19, but no one knows by how much. There was almost no studies on the effect of the vaccine on contagion. Given that Covid-19 is contagious without symptoms, the vaccines would probably be less effective in preventing contagion.
AND WE NEED TO END THIS PANDEMIC AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. We literally need to throw everything we can at it, and stop it. That means social distancing and masks will need to be used as long as outbreaks are in the area.
A vaccine teaches your immune system to fight the disease, but you still get the disease. Then you fight it off, hopefully. Even there, vaccines are not 100% effective. None of this is magic.
The Covid-19 vaccines very effective in reducing symptoms. The immune systems are so good at fighting off the disease that people get less symptoms. But even people with no symptoms can transmit the disease. We have no idea how effective the vaccines are at preventing transmission.
Viral load studies are incredibly difficult to do. Doing it on a huge number of vaccinated people, and an equally huge number of unvaccinated people, on a weekly basis for a few months would be very cost prohibitive. Why would you have spent billions of dollars on a study, and then rather than submit it for peer reviewed publishing, post a sentence here?
The only explanation I can think of is that you are a liar. You did not test for viral loads, and in fact have no idea how to test for viral loads.
Maybe you are that selfish. The rest of us are willing to get vaccines, and wear masks, all to stop this pandemic. Then when the pandemic is ended, we no longer have to wear masks, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY OUR ECONOMY AND MILLIONS OF LIVES ARE SAVED!!!
And that last bit is the important part. Somewhere Dukkha and his dropout friends have decided the important thing is to get rid of masks. The important thing it to save the economy and millions of lives.
The new strains have higher infection rates. That is just a fact.
You are missing a step. When the pandemic ebbs, then we will no longer need masks. It is not tied to the vaccine, it is tied to the spread of the disease. If the vaccine ends the pandemic, then we no longer need masks. If the vaccine slows the spread, then we need masks more than ever, to finally end the pandemic.
Lets say the R0 (natural spread of the disease) for the new strain is 3. Every new infected person could be expected to infect three others, if nothing is done to stop that. Lets say the vaccine is 50% effective in reducing infections, so we get an R of 1.5. That is greater than 1, so the pandemic will continue to spread. Worse yet, it will continue to evolve around the vaccine, so we might be back to an R of 3.
Now lets say masks are also 50% effective. So if we use vaccines, and masks, then we get an R of 0.75. That means a slow end to the pandemic. It is not the quick end we want, but it is an end.
But you may say that I am picking worst case scenario numbers. What if the vaccine is 90% effective? We would get an R of 0.3 without masks, and 0.15 with masks. Even in this case, we are seeing a much quicker end to the pandemic with masks, which would save hundreds of thousands of lives, and trillions of dollars.
Antibodies fade quickly, and second infections are possible. I cannot see an upside to you not wearing a mask, but there is a very real possibility of a downside.
Notice I said possibility. We do not have all the answers, and may never have all the answers.
gawd almighty
infection rates (transmission) are not replication (the effective viral load)
You are mixing three different concepts, and one of those concepts has multiple possible meanings. I am not going to get bogged down with this.
It is a fact that many of the new strains have a higher infection rate. One infected person can be expected to infect more other people. This is going to get bad.
The new strains are coming to America, and spreading in America. Some actually started in America. In about a month, we should be seeing a rising number of Covid-19.
We have been vaccinating the people most likely to die from Covid-19, not the most likely to spread the disease. I posted another thread on the "younger people are spreading the disease to older people who are dying from it." We are vaccinating the older people who are dying from it, not the younger people who are spreading it. That means we will not see much of a reduction in the spread of the disease, but hopefully will see a reduction in the deaths from the disease.
There is another issue. The oldest people are generally not put into ICU's. They cannot handle the equipment that saves lives, and so die in a normal bed. That means the first phase of the vaccine will not reduce the need for ICU beds, and if ICU's get overwhelmed, we will see a huge spike in deaths.
Between CDC, WHO and Fauxi they have made more waffles than IHOP. One day it's this. One day it's that.
More determined than ever now to not trust any of them. I'll just wait and watch for one solid consensus on
the safety and efficacy on this little injectable cocktail in maybe 5 years.
We are 100% safe from Smallpox, so it is possible to eliminate a disease, and become safe from it. There are many other diseases which we have brought down to an occasional outbreak. If we can get to that point, we only have to react to outbreaks.
Right now, we are in a full blown pandemic. About 5,000 Americans are dying a day, and as the new strains take hold, that number will go up. We are as far from being 100% safe as possible.
We need to defeat this pandemic.