random thoughts on nothingness

[Thorn]

Time exists where or not man is present. Things will still happen and change takes time.

Right. It's just the old classical "tree falls in the forest" freshman philosophy question in a different form.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

lady you are right, so long as space existed before the big bang, there was time.

But before space, there was no time. Time and Space are related and tied together. Without space, there is no time.

 

[uscitizen]

Gaffers problem is he views time only as a measurment, which is not accurate. Time is a direct property of space, which is linked with space.

Time is the measurement of change. If no changes happen there is no time.

 

[Thorn]

Change isn't a necessary component of time. Time passes whether or not anything changes during any segment of time.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

no. you are wrong. Time is not just a measurment. It is a structure of space, its own dimension. Even if things did not change, time would still exist.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

above comment @ uscitizen

 

[uscitizen]

If there is no motion at all in the universe, even down to the molecular level, EM, gravity, etc, is there time ?

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Yes.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

Time is a property of space. If space exists, time exists.

 

[uscitizen]

explain how if everything is frozen ?
I mean everything light , radiation, molecular motion, everything.

 

[uscitizen]

Time is a property of space. If space exists, time exists.

time is a property of space with things in motion.
Frozen motionless space is another issue.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

You are continuing to view time as merely a measurment of change, that is not what time is.

The existence of time is not dependant on change or motion. It is in of itself a property of space.

 

[uscitizen]

Of our space as it is yes. but our space has change, what if it had no change,

 

[uscitizen]

I thnk my key point here is OUR SPACE.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

First of all, again, time is not dependant on the rate of which things change, or even if things change at all.

Secondly, even if I were to agree to your scenerio, that's like asking what if our space had no distance. That's impossible because with the mere existence of space, there will be distance.

Likewise, with the existence of space, there will be time. Time is as much related to space as distance is related to space.

 

[Damocles]

Time does not exist without man. It is a measurement of moments. Without man to note the rotation of the planet you have no measurement of time. Just existance.

Not true. This is like saying that height doesn't exist without man to measure it. It exists whether we measure it or not. That there may be no more intelligence to measure it won't change its existence...

 

[uscitizen]

A lot of stuff becomes null and void if change does not happen. Gravity does not work, light does not shine, etc....

 

[uscitizen]

Our understanding of time is based on a universe in motion.

 

[uscitizen]

What about an alternate universe with no motion ?
would time work the same there ?
with no motion , nothing ever happens.
If nothing ever happens, does time exist ?

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

A lot of stuff becomes null and void if change does not happen. Gravity does not work, light does not shine, etc....

Well that's a different argument.