Rape: Do victims of rape share any responsibility?

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Sun Devil

Sun Devil

Death and Taxes
I understand this may be a touchy for some here who were actual victims of rape, and in that understanding, I apologize, but I wanted to make a discussion thread where we can all discuss this, and also allow Abraxas' position to be further clarified. In this discussion I will play the unpopular stance of being a "Devil's Advocate." Since there are varying circumstances of how victims are raped, I'll be specific and focus on college most specifically college women. Disclaimer I'm doing this because I wont have much time to participate so I'd like to get this subject out the way

Are college women responsible for being raped?

My answer:

Gullibility and ignorance aren't excuses to not know a volitile environment. I think there are circumstances where we've become at least partially responsible to what befalls us, the question is at what point do we determine if a woman is truly raped? An accusation? A mark? A bruise? I suppose when it gets to that point an arbitrator is to decide but it appears are so-called "rape culture" in turn, is also rape sensitive. As you may recall recently a Florida athlete got off on a rape charge. Although we don't want to discourage actual rape victims to be truthful.

So what about the pretty young college woman who dresses in provocative clothing that attends a fraternity party where alcohol is served and is sexually assaulted? The popular opinion is that she is not responsible for the man's actions. True, she isn't. A criminal who plans us harm we as the victim of that harm do not share in the reasoning behind that harm, but do we share in the responsibility of not being AWARE of possible harm?

I fully believe if a woman is attending a function where alcohol is involved, she needs to take an active role in preparing to be safe, bring friends, know drinking limits etc. If the friends are as irresponsible as the young woman then in a situation where rape happens she in actuality have placedherself in a situation where there is a hazard.
 
No, and not even weighing out the differences in circumstances. Obviously, some rapists are opportunists and some are predators. Bottom line is try teaching your sons that they will burn in hell (and deserve capital punishment) if they so much as rape one woman.

Do teach your women techniques to avoid danger, such as partying responsibly, traveling safely, and so forth, but that is simple risk analysis - not an answer to the problem of rape.
 
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it's never the fault of a women (or anyone being raped), but it's cognitive dissonance to pretend there aren't steps one can take to minimize their chances. Ask any women if they want to walk alone down an alley late at night. We as humans will naturally mitigate risk all the time. I don't deserve to be mugged but that doesn't mean walking down a poor street waving counting my cash is a smart thing to do.

So being plastered and by yourself isn't the best idea either. In the here and now, knowing that there are people that will prey on those that are in a vulnerable state is a sad fact of life, but it is a reality.
 
Absolutely not her fault that somebody else takes advantage of her being in a bad situation. Rape isn't okay simply because a woman finds herself vulnerable. Especially not so IMO. I can't imagine a situation where I would leave behind my humanity enough to think it was okay to do something because some girl was at a party and her "friends" left, nor would I allow a "friend" of mine to do so. Anybody who would, is not deserving of my attention let alone loyalty based on some supposed friendship.
 
Sun Devil said:
I understand this may be a touchy for some here who were actual victims of rape, and in that understanding, I apologize, but I wanted to make a discussion thread where we can all discuss this, and also allow Abraxas' position to be further clarified. In this discussion I will play the unpopular stance of being a "Devil's Advocate." Since there are varying circumstances of how victims are raped, I'll be specific and focus on college most specifically college women. Disclaimer I'm doing this because I wont have much time to participate so I'd like to get this subject out the way

Are college women responsible for being raped?

My answer:

Gullibility and ignorance aren't excuses to not know a volitile environment. I think there are circumstances where we've become at least partially responsible to what befalls us, the question is at what point do we determine if a woman is truly raped? An accusation? A mark? A bruise? I suppose when it gets to that point an arbitrator is to decide but it appears are so-called "rape culture" in turn, is also rape sensitive. As you may recall recently a Florida athlete got off on a rape charge. Although we don't want to discourage actual rape victims to be truthful.

So what about the pretty young college woman who dresses in provocative clothing that attends a fraternity party where alcohol is served and is sexually assaulted? The popular opinion is that she is not responsible for the man's actions. True, she isn't. A criminal who plans us harm we as the victim of that harm do not share in the reasoning behind that harm, but do we share in the responsibility of not being AWARE of possible harm?

I fully believe if a woman is attending a function where alcohol is involved, she needs to take an active role in preparing to be safe, bring friends, know drinking limits etc. If the friends are as irresponsible as the young woman then in a situation where rape happens she in actuality have placedherself in a situation where there is a hazard.
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No
A rape victim is and always will be the victim; but just because a women gets so drunk that she can't remember, doesn't automatically means it was rape.
 
There are two types of rapists. The predator who rapes regardless of a woman's dress code or even of her physical attractiveness or appearance. The predator rapist does not rape for sex, he rapes for power.

The second kind of rapist is the opportunist or situational rapist. This person rapes because he's drunk, or perhaps because he's young and stupid. This is the kind of rapist you find on college campuses or perhaps after too much to drink he thinks her no after heavy petting means she wants you, she's just playing coy.

Does a woman play a part in her rape, or worded another way, does she have any responsibility? No, never. But there are women who enjoy putting their sexuality out there taunting and teasing men, who then seem shocked that men are confused by the message of "look at me and think about sex, but don't touch"; those kind of womenare bitches.
 
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XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
There are two types of rapists. The predator who rapes regardless of a woman's dress code or even of her physical attractiveness or appearance. The predator rapist does not rape for sex, he rapes for power.

The second kind of rapist is the opportunist or situational rapist. This person rapes because he's drunk, or perhaps because he's young and stupid. This is the kind of rapist you find on college campuses or perhaps after too much to drink he thinks her no after heavy petting means she wants you, she's just playing coy.

Does a woman play a part in her rape, or worded another way, does she have any responsibility? No, never. But there are women who enjoy putting their sexuality out there taunting and teasing men, who then seem shocked that men are confused by the message of "look at me and think about sex, but don't touch"; those kind of womenare bitches.
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Yes but what about the situation which I suspect happens a lot where a woman and a man are both drunk, have sex and then, for various reasons, she regrets it and cries rape. Those reasons can include embarrassment, guilt, shame or even revulsion.
 
Abraxas said:
Yes but what about the situation which I suspect happens a lot where a woman and a man are both drunk, have sex and then, for various reasons, she regrets it and cries rape. Those reasons can include embarrassment, guilt, shame or even revulsion.
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They may claim rape, but that's not rape. Unfortunately itay require a court of law to become involved.
 
Abraxas said:
Well there are a few on here that would say it was rape and maintain that a woman never lies or makes false rape charges.
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I've never heard what happens when two drunk people have sex. Did they both rape each other and should both go to jail? Pretty sure only one person gets in trouble in that circumstance though
 
Women do cry rape when no rape has taken place - I believe this is likely a rare occurrence. When that happens, and she is found out, she should be locked up. She should have to register as a sex offender since she used sex as a weapon to ruin someone's life.
 
To weirdoes all victims are responsible, whereas criminal bullies never are. Simple really - it's about power, see.
 
Joseph Plunkett said:
No, and not even weighing out the differences in circumstances. Obviously, some rapists are opportunists and some are predators. Bottom line is try teaching your sons that they will burn in hell (and deserve capital punishment) if they so much as rape one woman.

Do teach your women techniques to avoid danger, such as partying responsibly, traveling safely, and so forth, but that is simple risk analysis - not an answer to the problem of rape.
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This is not to be an answer to rape but to determine whether or not there is some partial responsibility. I live in Los Angeles where it is known as the epicenter and originator of Bloods and Crips. If I know that these particular gangs operate based on colors and MLB hat logos yet I continue to wear opposing colors (along with the signature hats) and I'm accosted, who is responsible?
 
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Thomas Clarke said:
it's never the fault of a women (or anyone being raped), but it's cognitive dissonance to pretend there aren't steps one can take to minimize their chances. Ask any women if they want to walk alone down an alley late at night. We as humans will naturally mitigate risk all the time. I don't deserve to be mugged but that doesn't mean walking down a poor street waving counting my cash is a smart thing to do.

So being plastered and by yourself isn't the best idea either. In the here and now, knowing that there are people that will prey on those that are in a vulnerable state is a sad fact of life, but it is a reality.
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The point here is to not point the finger but to determine whether or not, NOT taking precautions may in fact make you at least partially responsible. I'm sorry but I've seen far too many college women that get plastered wear short skirts and act like men who are also plastered are supposed to be on their best behavior. People don't realize that alcohol inhibits the frontal lobe of your brain, the center that deals with logic and compartmentalization of thoughts and behaviors. People often think if one suggests partial responsibility people immediately think "oh you're blaming the victim" no, but if you don't take steps in being safe then not only the risk factors increase, but also in retrospect you cannot blame your surroundings for your failures.
 
Sun Devil said:
This is not to be an answer to rape but to determine whether or not there is some partial responsibility. I live in Los Angeles where it is known as the epicenter and originator of Bloods and Crips. If I know that these particular gangs operate based on colors and MLB hat logs yet I continue to wear opposing colors (along with the signature hats) and I'm accosted, who is responsible?
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It is a shared responsibility.
Them for using what someone is wearing, as an excuse for targeting them.
You if you're wearing it with the knowledge that you're putting yourself at peril.

If someone waves a loaded gun at a police officer and gets shot, who's to blame?
 
The following is an example of an overtly Rape Sensitive society

Florida State University Football Star Won’t Face Rape Charges, Prosecutor Says

"The case stems from an accusation made almost a year ago to the day, on Dec. 7, 2012, when a Florida State student called campus police at 3:30 a.m. to report that she’d been raped. According to a warrant released shortly before Meggs’ announcement, the woman reported having five or six shots at a bar, after which, she says, her memory became “very broken.” Meggs said the woman’s blood alcohol level at the time of the incident was about 1.0. The woman reported riding in a cab with a “nondescript black man” to an apartment where she was raped, the Tallahassee Democrat reported. The warrant says the woman tried to fight the man off and that at one point during the event another man entered the room and told the alleged assailant to stop.

Investigators have matched Winston’s DNA to that collected in evidence the day of the incident. Winston does not deny that he and the woman had sex but says it was consensual, something the woman’s family has denied."

(A snippet from the top of the article)



"When asked if he thought Winston had received special treatment because he’s a star athlete, Meggs said: “I don’t think they do and we try to treat everyone the same.

“We did not feel we had sufficient evidence to bring the case to trial to prove it was not consensual,” Meggs said.

Meggs said the discovery of DNA from a second male associated with the event helped inform the decision not to bring charges against Winston. The identity of that third party has not been released."

See Reference:http://nation.time.com/2013/12/05/f...-star-wont-face-rape-charges-prosecutor-says/


Statistically speaking men are indeed responsible at least statistically for the rape of women, but it seems rape is synonymous with women and indeed the power shift regarding women and rape are indeed in a woman's favor. What if they didn't find a second DNA in the woman? What if this athlete continued to argue that rape was consensual? What if this wasn't no star athlete but a regular joe like you or I?
 
Sun Devil said:
The point here is to not point the finger but to determine whether or not, NOT taking precautions may in fact make you at least partially responsible. I'm sorry but I've seen far too many college women that get plastered wear short skirts and act like men who are also plastered are supposed to be on their best behavior. People don't realize that alcohol inhibits the frontal lobe of your brain, the center that deals with logic and compartmentalization of thoughts and behaviors. People often think if one suggests partial responsibility people immediately think "oh you're blaming the victim" no, but if you don't take steps in being safe then not only the risk factors increase, but also in retrospect you cannot blame your surroundings for your failures.
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'
Well i said pretty much the same thing and JPP's very own she devil went postal about it. You will get a pass though as you're black and she believes that white men are responsible for all the problems in the world.
 
Sun Devil said:
This is not to be an answer to rape but to determine whether or not there is some partial responsibility. I live in Los Angeles where it is known as the epicenter and originator of Bloods and Crips. If I know that these particular gangs operate based on colors and MLB hat logos yet I continue to wear opposing colors (along with the signature hats) and I'm accosted, who is responsible?
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The law will continue to make determinations on a case-by-case basis as to whether or not an incident constitutes date rape and/or consent. In the big picture, though, I do believe that the rapist bears 100% of the blame.
 
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