Reality check on electric cars

[Into the Night]

200 miles a day will suit nearly everyone in the country.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Some EVs are getting more.

You think that wimpy range is something to crow about???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

The fact is the charging gets faster and the range gets longer.

Not a fact. An argument. Learn what 'fact' means.

Who knows how much better it will get next?

The EV market is crashing (again). Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. There's a reason, Sock.

 

[Nordberg]

Wrong. In Detroit's case, street cars simply became uncompetitive with alternatives in transportation. The Detroit streetcar system was privately owned, not government run, and wasn't going to operate at a perpetual loss like modern government run public transit does. One of the biggest killers was as the city grew and changed over time, streetcar systems were fixed and inflexible so they couldn't quickly and cost effectively change with them. Detroit switched to a publicly owned streetcar system in 1922, and that too did in the system due to the inefficiency of government.
This was a common failing of these systems and often the cause of their demise.

Yes, in LA General Motors and Firestone colluded to get rid of the "Big Red" streetcar system and replace it with busses, but even if the streetcar system had remained, it would have operated at increasingly large losses as the LA region grew.

In the US, unlike say, Europe, most cities grew to become automobile-centric rather than walkable / public transit friendly. In Asia, land area is often limited and kept cities walkable and public transit friendly. In Europe, most cities were pre-automobile so they remained walkable and public transit friendly.

Today in the US we have a movement on the Left to try and reshape US cities into walkable and public transit friendly, but that horse has left the barn. It isn't going to happen, and that's why US public transit is so expensive and shitty--It simply doesn't serve a spread out car-centric city and never can.

It was the power of the Big 3 that removed them. They wanted America to go full ICE. Over time, the big 3 have controlled that narrative. Money and power do that. There are many books written on the subject,
I remember riding them. They had rails embedded in the streets. They had overheard rails and the vehicle was connected to the overheads. Sometimes they fell off and the driver would go out with a rod and push them back in place.
.

 

[Into the Night]

if we look at history and how technology scales from its early mass adoption and commercialization stages, to latter stages, in things like Computers, cell phones, the internet, and even ICE vehicles themselves it is very clear, that unless EV's end up being an outlier, that EV's will crush ICE vehicles in pretty much every measurable way.

There is mass amounts of venture cash, chasing improvements in all areas, and we are seeing significant advances constantly. Whereas ICE is a mature technology and improvements are tiny.

I think we can expect EV', that on a single charge will get multiples of the mileage of ICE, with charge times comparable to filling up a gas tank now. Again, certainly the history of most major tech roll outs and how they improved, suggests that to be the smart money bet.





The above are just 2 examples of dozens, i could cite showing where Venture capital is betting their money and many of the early gains and proofs they are seeing.

The first one deals with ranges ICE will never be able to touch. The video below shows one, of many early super fast charging innovations being worked on already showing positive results.

40 years isn't good enough???

Selling vaporware doesn't work.

 

[Into the Night]

No.

You've been embarrassed and debunked in pretty near every claim and yet keep repeating already refuted points.

EV's fit perfectly in to your Person 3 profile outside your arbitrary and stupid attempt to create a restriction that would apply to very few, to no drivers, with regards to 'needing to charge in 20 minutes or less'.

On the vast vast majority of trips for Person 3 the charge they leave with will be adequate to get where they are going. Far more likely, especially on busy weekends that the ICE vehicle is searching for gas stations not lined up (like the picture you guys were mocking for the wrong reason up thread) and that is because so many ICE drivers are not fully fueled (yes they too run below 100%) before they have to go on a long trip and have to grab gas at the busiest times (weekends, holidays, long weekends).

And it is the EV driver zipping past the ICE driver who cannot fuel in 20 minutes or less, while the EV does not need to fuel at all, as they did so at home before leaving.


WHich is why you still have not have even attempted to define what an average family or person drive would look like that an EV could not do and what percent of their yearly driving that takes up?? Why won't you explain that?

You have not debunked anything, Kewpie. EVs need to refuel (recharge) just like any vehicle. RQAA.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, parrots.

You are not me, Sock. Sybil is YOU.

 

[Into the Night]

As long as you repeat the same proven wrong and stupid things, I will repeat the refutation of them.

So it is on you to get smarter and try to be right.

Attempted proof by void. You have conducted NO proof nor provided ANY data.

 

[Into the Night]

How much higher will household electric bills become from charging your car every night?

Significant, particularly in areas (like the SDTC) that do not generate sufficient power.
He thinks he's saving money. It's not enough to justify the higher cost of an EV, and certainly doesn't justify the inconvenience and fire risk of them while they are charging.

 

[Into the Night]

The difference is far, far cheaper than buying gas. This is a point that has never been in dispute. If you were driving an EV, you would be saving a lot of money.

Not enough, Sock. EVs cost a lot more than a gasoline car, and so does the insurance for them. Add to that the cost of the inconvenience while you wait for your car to charge and the limited range they have.

You will spend far more on the EV.

 

[Into the Night]

Road maintenance is paid for by the gas tax. EVs get around that tax yet they still want us to pay for charging station infrastructure.

Some places are adding additional taxes if you own an EV for just that reason.

 

[Into the Night]

You plug it in at night . It takes 1o seconds. You wake up to a full charge. It i the smallest fueling commitment possible.

It doesn't take eight hours to refuel a gasoline car, Sock.

 

[Into the Night]

Google is your friend, coal is made up of hydrocarbons and you are an ignoramous.

Coal is not a hydrocarbon.

 

[goat]

Some places are adding additional taxes if you own an EV for just that reason.

I did not know that.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, you are as big an idiot as the last guy who tried to claim coal was not a hydrocarbon. The fact that coal is made up of hydrogen and carbon and yes it is carbon rich and hydrogen poor but it is still classified as a hydrocarbon. Just as natural gas is hydrogen rich and carbon poor and still a hydrocarbon. Coal contains varying amounts of carbon and hydrogen with impurities Oxygen, Nitrogen and Sulfur. Charcoal is practically 100% carbon and quite different than coal. Coal is formed over millions of years whereas charcoal is a manufactured product.

Coal is not a hydrocarbon. Methane (natural gas) is a hydrocarbon. Coal is primarily carbon. It contains no oxygen or nitrogen. Sulfur impurities are not coal.

Coal is not formed over millions of years.
Neither is oil or natural gas. It is easy to manufacture one of these within hours.

NONE of these materials are fossils.

 

[Into the Night]

These are just the top 6 google hits on the pace of rapid promising rapid charges breakthru's being chased by mass amounts of big money VC investments.

These are not articles on the same advancement and are instead 6 completely new potentially paths, that have shown to work in early testing and that are moving to prove they can function at scale.














Derps like Terry will try to argue that this technology is locked in time and what you have today will be all there will be in the future and they know better than the scientists and VC who are spending enormous resources pursuing this. But history tells us people like Terry are wrong. Oh and stupid. Almost all, if not all, big moves to mass commercializations, are parallel with equally massive technology and efficiency breakthroughs. ICe vehicles were not locked in pre Ford 'Mass Production Line' efficiency models, and the early cell phones and the roll out of the internet were not locked to Version 1.

Smart betting money says todays ICE, a mature technology with very few big improvements being pursued, will simply not be competitive, by any measure, to EV technology as it realizes the coming advancements.

Selling vaporware doesn't work, Kewpie.
The EV market is crashing, Kewpie.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes this is the Terry argument.

All technology is frozen in time and advancements being pursued are just 'fantasy' or as Terry said 'wish casting'.

We are to think all these top scientists and the VC are just foolish, and you magat derps, know better.

the fact is such advancements are far more the norm, than the exception.

If we listen to you and Terry we never believe the ICE vehicle can advance beyond the early 1900's. The Cell phone beyond its 90's mass adoption. The internet from copper to fibre optics.

You guys would say all views on improvements are just 'fantasy' or 'wish casting'.

But that is the Magat view. R&D, and successful lab testing are not relevant to them as they ONLY look at the past, not the future. It is the core premise of MAGA. Only looking back.

It is YOU chasing 40 year old technology as 'cutting edge', Luddite.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes and I am sure you believe the earth is flat too.

Lame. You can't come up with a better one than that.

 

[Into the Night]

What all the crazy rightys have shown in this discussion, is that a hybrid would suit their needs. It would save them a lot of money.

A hybrid is a gasoline car, Sock. You are also carrying around two motors instead of one, making the car heavier, less maneuverable, and less fuel efficient.

 

[Into the Night]

It takes about 10,000 to 20,000 hours to become an expert in something. Most people will not be an expert in anything. But Mann thinks he can become an expert in a minute or two, and thinks he is an expert in everything.

It really shows where we are.

I've seen people become experts at something in less than 2 hours.

IBDaMann happens to know what he is talking about. He certainly knows enough chemistry to understand what an idiot you are.

Now, stop evading and answer his question.

 

[Into the Night]

All Magats do.

This is the Marjorie Greene magat age, where she brags about being in a House briefing with many of the worlds leading experts and she shouts them down, telling them they are wrong, and she has read counter information on the internet.

that is what you see Terry and other magats do here on almost every technology discussion.

They simply wave their hands and say all the top corporations, all the top paid scientists, all the top VC's spending Billions pursuing advancements is something to be dismissed as "wish casting" or "fantasy" and we are told to accept their position that no advancements will be achieved and what you see in terms of where the technology is today, is all that will ever be achieved.

They push this view that their guess is more informed than Corporations, Scientists, and top VC's who all believe breakthru's are not just coming but close to being achieved based on smaller scale proofs, that they are trying to prove can be achieved at scale. All this in the face of history providing few (maybe none) such examples of mass commercialization waves of ANY technology not being followed by years and decades of significant improvements.

Considering EV's are already competitive with ICE in all but a few ways, and better for many people in a lot of ways, it is fair to say, that if EV tech advancements continue to pile up, that ICE simply will not even be close to competitive with EV's in the future as ICE is mature and big advancements are almost non existent now.

EVs are not competitive. The EV market is crashing, Sock. 'Expert' worship isn't going to work either.

 

[Into the Night]

"Fossils" and "Fossil fuels" are two different things dumbshit and all fossil fuels contain hydrocarbons and can be found in the solid, liquid or gas states.



The remains of plants and animals were the "fossils". The pressure and heat changed them from fossils to carbon and hydrogen-rich materials known as fossil fuels.

You idiots are incredible trying to convince others that oil, coal and natural gas are not fossil fuels primarily made up of hydrocarbons.

Fossils are not fuel. Fossils don't burn.
Oil is a liquid, not a fossil.
Natural gas is gaseous, not a fossil. Fossils are neither a liquid nor gas.
Coal is a solid, but it is not a fossil (though it may contain fossils as impurities).

Fossils are not hydrocarbons. They are typically some form of carbonate and silica.

Both crude oil and natural gas can be synthesized within hours, using conditions naturally found underground (heat, pressure, a carbon source such as carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide, hydrogen, heat, pressure, and an iron catalyst).