Republican Platform Chokes on Ukraine

martin

Well-known member
True to its cowardly subservience to Donald Trump, of all people, the GOP is planning to introduce a platform that will say nothing on the war in Ukraine. This is a Munich moment but for Republicans it is more about giving Trump a gift he can deliver to his idol.

 
True to its cowardly subservience to Donald Trump, of all people, the GOP is planning to introduce a platform that will say nothing on the war in Ukraine. This is a Munich moment but for Republicans it is more about giving Trump a gift he can deliver to his idol.

Hardly. A "Munich moment" would be Biden doing nothing to stop Putin from invading to begin with. This is more akin to FDR staying out of the Russian-Finnish war.
 
Hardly. A "Munich moment" would be Biden doing nothing to stop Putin from invading to begin with. This is more akin to FDR staying out of the Russian-Finnish war.
Hardly. In 1939 the United States barely had an army and the military we did have was starting to be readied for the threat from Germany. Europe today faces a military power whose leader has dreams not different from Hitler's.
 
Hardly. In 1939 the United States barely had an army and the military we did have was starting to be readied for the threat from Germany.

The Ukrainian War is Hot Mic Obama's war. It started in 2014. Putin took Crimea and Obama folded like a wet paper sack.

Biden has turned Ukraine into another Vietnam.
And like Vietnam, he has never even offered them Enough to actually win.

I have two questions for you ... Why did Obama hand Putin Crimea on a silver plate? Why did Obama not provide real support for the 2014 Donbass front?

Socialist Europe needs to pay for that fucking war. Americans should not be blackmailed into subsidizing their Euro Socialism lifestyles.
 
The Ukrainian War is Hot Mic Obama's war. It started in 2014. Putin took Crimea and Obama folded like a wet paper sack.

Biden has turned Ukraine into another Vietnam.
And like Vietnam, he has never even offered them Enough to actually win.

I have two questions for you ... Why did Obama hand Putin Crimea on a silver plate? Why did Obama not provide real support for the 2014 Donbass front?

Socialist Europe needs to pay for that fucking war. Americans should not be blackmailed into subsidizing their Euro Socialism lifestyles.
Obama's failures in Ukraine will not be a ticket for Trump pulling the plug altogether. Republicans will allow it nevertheless.
 
Hardly. In 1939 the United States barely had an army and the military we did have was starting to be readied for the threat from Germany. Europe today faces a military power whose leader has dreams not different from Hitler's.
FDR initially placed an embargo on arms sales to Finland until after September 1939 when the Soviet Union invaded Poland (after Germany) and took the Eastern half of that country.

As for the US military, most of US spending in 1939--and it was massive even then--was going into expanding bases, facilities, and factories for production of war materials, along with enlarging the Army Air Force and Navy rather than building a huge land army. While Germany was considered a potential enemy, it was Japan that topped the list at that time as our number 1 adversary.
 
I have two questions for you ... Why did Obama hand Putin Crimea on a silver plate?

Not sure where you're getting this idea that this is what Obama did.

Why did Obama not provide real support for the 2014 Donbass front?

He was smart. Journalist Aaron Mate touches upon why Obama refused to arm Ukraine in an article he wrote a few months after Russia's military operation in Ukraine began:

Quoting the introduction:
**
On a warm October day in 2019, the eminent Russia studies professor Stephen F. Cohen and I sat down in Manhattan for what would be our last in-person interview (Cohen passed away in September 2020 at the age of 81).

The House was gearing up to impeach Donald Trump for freezing weapons shipments to Ukraine while pressuring its government to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The Beltway media was consumed with frenzy of a presidency in peril. But Professor Cohen, one of the leading Russia scholars in the United States, was concerned with what the impeachment spectacle in Washington meant for the long-running war between the US-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed rebels in the Donbas.

At that point, Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelensky was just months into an upstart presidency that he had won on a pledge to end the Donbas conflict. Instead of supporting the Ukrainian leader’s peace mandate, Democrats in Congress were impeaching Trump for briefly impeding the flow of weapons that fueled the fight. As his Democratic allies now like to forget, President Obama refused to send these same weapons out of fear of prolonging the war and arming Nazis. By abandoning Obama’s policy, the Democrats, Cohen warned, threaten to sabotage peace and strengthen Ukraine’s far-right.

**

I think it's a great article. Aaron then launches into the main theme of his article, how the U.S.'s encouraging of the far right in Ukraine led to Zelensky's turnabout from peace candidate to war cheerleader. He starts with how things were back in 2019:
**
“Zelensky ran as a peace candidate,” Cohen explained. “He won an enormous mandate to make peace. So, that means he has to negotiate with Vladimir Putin.” But there was a major obstacle. Ukrainian fascists “have said that they will remove and kill Zelensky if he continues along this line of negotiating with Putin… His life is being threatened literally by a quasi-fascist movement in Ukraine.”

Peace could only come, Cohen stressed, on one condition. “[Zelensky] can’t go forward with full peace negotiations with Russia, with Putin, unless America has his back,” he said. “Maybe that won’t be enough, but unless the White House encourages this diplomacy, Zelensky has no chance of negotiating an end to the war. So the stakes are enormously high.”

The subsequent impeachment trial, and bipartisan US policy since, has made clear that Washington has had no interest in having Zelensky’s back, and every interest in fueling the Donbas war that he had been elected to end. The overwhelming message from Congress, fervently amplified across the US media (including progressive outlets) with next to no dissent, was that when it comes to Ukraine’s civil war, the US saw Ukraine’s far-right as allies, and its civilians as cannon fodder.

**
 
Obama's failures in Ukraine will not be a ticket for Trump pulling the plug altogether. Republicans will allow it nevertheless.
Wrong.

Ukraine overturned the presidential election Democratic results in 2004. They are not a united country.

In 1981, during the Siberian pipeline crisis, Reagan warned the Euro weenies not to prop up Russia, and become dependent on Russian oil and gas over 40 years ago.

The greedy socialists did not listen. They created and funded the Russian problem.
 
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True to its cowardly subservience to Donald Trump, of all people, the GOP is planning to introduce a platform that will say nothing on the war in Ukraine. This is a Munich moment but for Republicans it is more about giving Trump a gift he can deliver to his idol.

Ukraine is not a major issue to Americans, other than the $billions we keep giving them. Dems are likely taking kickbacks from it , Biden especially.
 
Ukraine is not a major issue to Americans, other than the $billions we keep giving them. Dems are likely taking kickbacks from it , Biden especially.
It's a major issue to the security of Europe and consequently to the security of The United States which is committed to defend Europe.
Republican weaklings on the other hand will say and support whatever they think Trump wants them to say and support so you can save your breath, we know where you're coming from.
 
It's a major issue to the security of Europe and consequently to the security of The United States which is committed to defend Europe.
Republican weaklings on the other hand will say and support whatever they think Trump wants them to say and support so you can save your breath, we know your type.
We are not Europe, and their track record is catastrophic; we have our own issues, and Ukraine is NOT one of them.

It is a democrat money laundering scam.

We need to clean up our own backyard.
 
It's a major issue to the security of Europe and consequently to the security of The United States which is committed to defend Europe.
Republican weaklings on the other hand will say and support whatever they think Trump wants them to say and support so you can save your breath, we know where you're coming from.
I'm super happy we are kicking the shit stain neo cons back into your party of idiots. we have a big tent, but not that big
 
Not sure where you're getting this idea that this is what Obama did.



He was smart. Journalist Aaron Mate touches upon why Obama refused to arm Ukraine in an article he wrote a few months after Russia's military operation in Ukraine began:

Quoting the introduction:
**
On a warm October day in 2019, the eminent Russia studies professor Stephen F. Cohen and I sat down in Manhattan for what would be our last in-person interview (Cohen passed away in September 2020 at the age of 81).

The House was gearing up to impeach Donald Trump for freezing weapons shipments to Ukraine while pressuring its government to investigate Joe Biden and his son Hunter. The Beltway media was consumed with frenzy of a presidency in peril. But Professor Cohen, one of the leading Russia scholars in the United States, was concerned with what the impeachment spectacle in Washington meant for the long-running war between the US-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed rebels in the Donbas.

At that point, Ukraine’s Volodymyr Zelensky was just months into an upstart presidency that he had won on a pledge to end the Donbas conflict. Instead of supporting the Ukrainian leader’s peace mandate, Democrats in Congress were impeaching Trump for briefly impeding the flow of weapons that fueled the fight. As his Democratic allies now like to forget, President Obama refused to send these same weapons out of fear of prolonging the war and arming Nazis. By abandoning Obama’s policy, the Democrats, Cohen warned, threaten to sabotage peace and strengthen Ukraine’s far-right.

**

I think it's a great article. Aaron then launches into the main theme of his article, how the U.S.'s encouraging of the far right in Ukraine led to Zelensky's turnabout from peace candidate to war cheerleader. He starts with how things were back in 2019:
**
“Zelensky ran as a peace candidate,” Cohen explained. “He won an enormous mandate to make peace. So, that means he has to negotiate with Vladimir Putin.” But there was a major obstacle. Ukrainian fascists “have said that they will remove and kill Zelensky if he continues along this line of negotiating with Putin… His life is being threatened literally by a quasi-fascist movement in Ukraine.”

Peace could only come, Cohen stressed, on one condition. “[Zelensky] can’t go forward with full peace negotiations with Russia, with Putin, unless America has his back,” he said. “Maybe that won’t be enough, but unless the White House encourages this diplomacy, Zelensky has no chance of negotiating an end to the war. So the stakes are enormously high.”

The subsequent impeachment trial, and bipartisan US policy since, has made clear that Washington has had no interest in having Zelensky’s back, and every interest in fueling the Donbas war that he had been elected to end. The overwhelming message from Congress, fervently amplified across the US media (including progressive outlets) with next to no dissent, was that when it comes to Ukraine’s civil war, the US saw Ukraine’s far-right as allies, and its civilians as cannon fodder.

**
Welcome to the board, Scott.

Like the typical white lib, you don't know any facts. Which is why you can't form your own opinion; only parrot that of others.
 
What happens in Europe greatly effects the United States, everything from culture to economics is interconnected, appears this poster ^ is stuck in the 19th Century
Europe is a bunch of fucked up monarchial socialists that we have been subsidizing since WW2, and they hate us. It has been a continent of war for Millenia.

We don't share their culture, and they hate American culture. They don't buy that much from us. They'd rather buy from China and fund its economy.
 
It's a major issue to the security of Europe and consequently to the security of The United States which is committed to defend Europe.
Republican weaklings on the other hand will say and support whatever they think Trump wants them to say and support so you can save your breath, we know where you're coming from.
Then Europe needs to spend more on defense, right?

The truth is Ukraine is not a united country.
 
Then Europe needs to spend more on defense, right?

The truth is Ukraine is not a united country.
The United States is not a united country. What matters is a country unified under a national government and that is Ukraine just as it is the U.S. And Ukraine is a member state of The United Nations.
 
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