Republican Requires People to Have Health Care!!! OMG!

[Cancel7]

Okay I agree with everything you just said. Debating could quickly become implementing though, IMO. Kind of like playing with legislative fire.

You're right, and if we get into a situation with Iran, and I think we may, I am afraid that the Rangel plan will come back to bite the country in the ass. Because the draft has been put on the table and opened for discussion. It is playing with fire, and we might still get burned.

 

[Cypress]

Okay I agree with everything you just said. Debating could quickly become implementing though, IMO. Kind of like playing with legislative fire.

Possibly. But, I doubt it. Rangel knew, as does everyone else, that the bill would never pass. He simply wanted the repubs to let it come to the floor for debate. Our congress has never had a debate on the fairness of this war, and its impact on the small group of families who are sacrificing their husbands, wives, brothers, and sisters to doing three, four, and five tours of duty in iraq. I cut Rangel slack here. Its a debate worth having, and he was one of the first to try to actually do something about debating the iraq war in such a public manner. Being a decorated korean war combat vet, gave him some moral authority too.

 

[Epicurus]

I would not punish the child of a moron, just because of who their parents were for one thing. Though, if I could figure out a way to draft only College Republicans, all of whom seem to have the most amusing reasons for not going to Iraq (I have seen them interviewed at their meetings), I would do that.

Yeah the College LP actually confronted the President of the College Republicans about that in a debate last year. It was great to see.

 

[Epicurus]

You're right, and if we get into a situation with Iran, and I think we may, I am afraid that the Rangel plan will come back to bite the country in the ass. Because the draft has been put on the table and opened for discussion. It is playing with fire, and we might still get burned.

Yeah I just don't see how giving Bush more troops to use is supposed to get us out of a war. More likely it would send us INTO one with Iran.

Seriously for all we know he's sitting in the Oval Office thinking, "If only we had more troops we could march on Tehran."

 

[TheDanold]

Rangel simply wanted it to come to a floor debate. He wanted to use it as a legislative tool to debate the contrast and unfairness of those who serve and those who don't.

When the republicans wouldn't let it come to the floor for debate, he voted against his own bill, because he didn't really want the draft. He wanted a debate on fairness.

Having that debate is valuable, I think. Actually implementing the draft would be cruel, as you say.

What are you, his mind reader? Rangel made comments over and over that clearly illustrated his dislike for richer kids not fighting and wanted them sent to war.
He's from the era of drafts as a Korean war vet.

Rangel has repeatedly called for the government to bring back the draft. According to Rangel, "There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way."

He has also argued that reinstating the draft is a way to make the military more representative of the American public at large. "A disproportionate number of the poor and members of minority groups make up the enlisted ranks of the military, while most priv*ileged Americans are underrepresented or absent."

He is not using it as a tool, tool.

 

[Epicurus]

Well since he did vote against it I'm willing to cut him some degree of slack, but proposing it was still a poor move in my opinion.

It did succeed in shaping the debate. It shaped it into believing that a draft was a reasonable solution to this war.

 

[Cancel7]

What are you, his mind reader? Rangel made comments over and over that clearly illustrated his dislike for richer kids not fighting and wanted them sent to war.
He's from the era of drafts as a Korean war vet.

Rangel has repeatedly called for the government to bring back the draft. According to Rangel, "There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way."

He has also argued that reinstating the draft is a way to make the military more representative of the American public at large. "A disproportionate number of the poor and members of minority groups make up the enlisted ranks of the military, while most priv*ileged Americans are underrepresented or absent."

He is not using it as a tool, tool.

Just the fact that he said the draft would have prevented the Iraqi war, shows that he was using it as a tool...a tool to prevent wars of choice. He's obviously not pro-war, so what do you think he's using it for Dano?

 

[Epicurus]

Yeah Dano I have to agree with them, what you quoted supported the argument they were making that he was just trying to shape the debate.

 

[TheDanold]

Well since he did vote against it I'm willing to cut him some degree of slack, but proposing it was still a poor move in my opinion.

It did succeed in shaping the debate. It shaped it into believing that a draft was a reasonable solution to this war.

I am inclined to think that he voted against it because it lacked support and was pointless, he probably would have voted for it if it had a chance of passing.
The reason I say that is because once done voting against that he proposed another draft:

"In November 2006, he outlined his proposed bill to reinstate the draft. The bill, H.R. 393 (2007), if passed, would require a draft of all men and women in the United States between the ages of 18-42. Polls show 70% of Americans oppose a reinstatement of the draft.[10] In an interview on Face the Nation, Rangel emphasized that people could fulfill their draft obligations through non-military services, such as port and airline security."

The last sentence is the key because he is not saying he is doing it as a political tool, he is trying to get people on board with it by softening the impact.
In short he wants a draft and he's willing to make it nice and mushy to try and get a better chance at it passing.

 

[Epicurus]

Yeah I remember reading that bit actually. That was kind of weird. Like he had actually thought this out.

That sounds so fucked up. Starship Troopersesque.

 

[Cypress]

What are you, his mind reader? Rangel made comments over and over that clearly illustrated his dislike for richer kids not fighting and wanted them sent to war.
He's from the era of drafts as a Korean war vet.

Rangel has repeatedly called for the government to bring back the draft. According to Rangel, "There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way."

He has also argued that reinstating the draft is a way to make the military more representative of the American public at large. "A disproportionate number of the poor and members of minority groups make up the enlisted ranks of the military, while most priv*ileged Americans are underrepresented or absent."

He is not using it as a tool, tool.

I've heard him interviewed about it. I'm not reading his mind. I'm going off the words he said.