And "Right" or "left" or "Conservative" or "Liberal" is a label you insist on putting on others. Your assumption is your labels are the only valid ones that exist.
Ron Paul and the Alabama straw poll
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a google search doesn't mean anything.
I could google search "bush is a chimpanzee" and get hundreds of hits.
Fiengold is kind of a maverick. But, he most certainly would not associate himself with Libertariansim, the way it is traditionally defined and practiced by the Libertarian Party, CATO, and Ayn Rand fans.
I'm sure Fiengold would align more with the progressive movement. Although I think Russ (like me) finds arguments about labels and pigeon holes to be quite lame and useless.
And therein lies the issue, you attempt to box all libertarians into that narrow definition when they do not all fit any more than all liberals fit into a "socialist" category.
What are you retarded? I never claimed he would associate with the LP. That's not even close to what anyone has said.
The google search shows that it is not us foisting this term on him. It's an often used term to describe him by many. I would be surprised if he rejected the label.
The ACLU and even Sierra Club has seen fit to associate with the LP frequently.
Good. So we agree, Feingold is not a libertarian.
Unless you want to claim "libertarian" is an amorphous, ill-defined term that can apply to anyone who believes in civil liberties and the constitution.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
My point exactly.
I have no desire to have anyone consider me a libertarian at all. I'd rather be confused as a republican before confusing me with a libertarian.
Ron Paul would make George Bush look like Humanitarian of the Century.
End Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, all safety nets .. just tell old people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Eliminate FEMA, EPA, FDA .. Americans who suffer from becoming victims of natural disasters .. fuck 'em, they should have made better choices.
JEEEZZZ .. What in the hell kind of people are these.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
When I read this I immediately rushed to find your post on contradictions .. but I didn't find one.
Please repeat what you think are contradictions and I'll be happy to respond.
I've read the Libertarian platform however. I've read CATO. I've read tons of self-professed libertarians on message boards.
And, there is one over-arching unifying philosophy that binds them together: A pull yourself up by your own bootstraps philosophy, a belief that the free market is nearly perfect, and that the Federal Goverment should be small enough to drown in a bathtub.
Nobody in the center-left coalition - not Fiengold, not Bernie Sanders, not Barbara Boxer - would support any of that. Or even be modestly associated with it.
"The left in this country "
I didn't say Dems did I? Though, and for your information, the majority of elected democrats voted against the war authorization.
I choose my own label, and do not need the libertarian tag put onto me in order to make the very small percentage of Americans who self-identify as libertarians feel less lonely.
QFT
Yeah, that is why they talk about different areas of libertarianism. It is because they feel lonely.
As I said, it is only because others have been so successful in defining others as "crazy libertarians" that the term becomes a "bad" one. I don't want to be called a "liberal" although my position on homosexual marriage could be considered "liberal" as well as "libertarian".
Hello! Exactly...and I don't want to be called a Libertarian for my liberal positions.
However, if the description is accurate that doesn't change the fact that it can be accurately described as "liberal" whether or not I want to be called such a thing. And it never will.
Running around with hands over ears screaming, "Don't tell me how I might agree with THEM!" doesn't change that it may be an accurate description in some instances.
No one ever said he was. The statement from the beginning is that he is a civil libertarian.
BTW, Feingold is a poor supporter of Constitution.
No, I am well aware that on social issues Libertarians hold similar views to myself. I do not object to acknowledging that. I object to Libertarians insisting this makes me a "social libertarian".
It makes me no such thing.
Adam Weinberg
Goldwater Republican
No more than "Liberal". If they advocate for those civil liberties and maintaining that Constitution then they are certainly a kind of libertarian (or liberal), even if their economic views would contradict "LibertarianISM". That's why we have the phrase "civil libertarian". We got that phrase because "liberal" wasn't cutting it anymore to explain a message of individual freedom.
Which, contrary to how somebody wrongly opined earlier in this discussion, the word "Liberal" at its genesis was about individual rights, not collective rights.
I am a social liberal. But there's more to it than that. There's a question of why and how I expect those socially liberal institutions to be upheld. I am not socially liberal just because I like it that way and want the state to favor my socially liberal attitudes over other attitudes. Truth is, with the freedom to be as socially liberal as I would want to be, I'd still be rather conservative in my own behavior...so there must be a philosophy behind it.
I happen to prefer the word libertarian because it makes a clear statement of that philosophy, that sets the it apart as an alternative to authoritarian control. My philosophy guides me to believe that these are rights to which we are morally entitled as human beings and which I do not believe the State should infringe.
And it is fortunate that we have a Bill of Rights which can stand to protect those freedoms if we are willing to regularly validate it in the face of those who would use the government to install bigotry into the law and deprive us of liberty.
To the concern that the phrase libertarian attempts to undermine the left, I believe you are correct to a degree that it does, but no more than it undermines what is perceived as "the right". The point of having a libertarian movement is to clarify in the minds of the public that you do not have to accept a wholesale left or rightward approach in your attitude about government in order to understand that the purpose of all of this activity is supposed to be keeping you free.
And therefore, you do not have to settle with the proposition of having your property or your rights interchangably held up as ransom in making a political transaction.
You do not have to be a leftist to be against the war. You do not have to be a right winger to be for the right to keep and bear arms. It is easy enough to recognize fundmentally that these policies either support or conflict with the tenets of liberty as outlined in the Constitution either for yourself or others.
You do not have to sacrifice your liberties in order to organize around principles that secure your interests and you do not have to give in to polarizing politics in order to have a viable opinion on public issues.