Ron Paul is about half genius.

I ask AGAIN, what system are you talking about? They already existed in a system of the decentralized power of nation-states. They became founders because they recognized the need for a more centralized government and laid they framework and foundation for that with the Constituition.

The federal republic that they put into place is what they founded. It is what he speaks of a return to rather than the far more centralized system of today.

It is disingenuous to pretend that the founders of the nation supported the ruin of the same just so you can ignore that portion of what he stated and then say, "He wants to get rid of the US government!" Rubbish! He argues for decentralization, not the destruction of the government.

Post where I said "he wants to cancel the United States." Strawman my ass, this is disingenuous argument. You altered what I said because it's easier for you to create an argument from there, not from what I actually said.

Oh come on! This is word for word a post from above:

"However, he has argued for the dissolution of the United States"

He has not. That is by far your most disingenuous exaggeration in the thread. A return to the system created by the founders is NOT the dissolution of the US!

Are you having difficulty in responding to the words I actually say, rather than your re-invention? I respond to what you and Paul have actually said and often quote the exact words.

And SO DO I!


I said that Paul wants to break America up into smaller nation-states. Paul SAID he wants to break up "the United States into smaller government units".

This is again exaggeration, he gives, in your own quote, examples of other nations that are also building smaller bureaucracies at local levels as an explanation. Name one nation that actually dissolved their national government while building these smaller bureaucracies and I'll agree in your exaggerated position, otherwise it is disingenuous exaggeration that ignores a portion of the actual quote and pretends to a point that was not there.

Quite a deliberate taking of the quote out of context. I simply take the quotes you post and place them back in context. The EXACT same quote has information in it that places it in a different context than what you attempt to make it fit in.

Would the argument of why decentralized (nation-state) government won't work also be inappropriate as a critcism of what Paul said? I have no problem arguing this against what you're saying Paul proposes.
So long as you are not pretending that returning to what the founders built is the same thing as dissolving the US, as you tried above, then I don't care about honest criticism of anybody at all. So long as you can take an equal and opposite argument.


Explain what the founders set up in your view. Centralized government appears to be exactly what the founders set up from my perspective and time has taught us that states are not equal.

The Founders set up centralized power for the common defense, the preservation of public peace against internal convulsions as external attacks, the regulation of commerce with other nations and between states, and the common interaction, political and commercial, with foreign countries.

Yet they limited it with Amendment 10 and others that many wish to ignore nowadays. Decentralizing much of the federal government certainly wouldn't be against what they built.


His highly illogical use of "There's no Cold War and no Communist threat" so we don't need the federal government is stupid as hell. Neither the federal government or centralized were formed to simply address the Cold War or a communist threat. You're dancing around the issue.

The founders spoke against a standing army, and other forms of over-federalization preferring to give more strength to the states rather than the centralized government. You are pretending that the founders wanted some strong central government that is put to lie by their own writings, some of them did, but thankfully they lost to Jefferson and others who preferred the states to have the stronger position, otherwise we would be even further along towards big brother already.


Is the man too stupid to know how to put english words together that accurately reflect his thoughts? .. "Why do we need the federal government? There's no Cold War and no Communist threat. Many other nations are breaking into smaller and smaller pieces. The centralization of power in Washington occurred in a different time. Why not think about getting rid of the federal government, returning to the system of our Founders, and breaking up the United States into smaller government units?" .. Is a long way from your reinterpretation. Perhaps you should be his speech writer.

Or we can actually look at what "returning to the system of our Founders" is considering the built this nation it certainly doesn't mean "Let's dissolve the United States!" Only somebody ignoring part of what was stated in order to make an exaggeration of his point into something ridiculous (in other words, taking it out of its own context and pretending parts of it don't exist and making a totally disingenuous argument of strawmen out of it) could possibly believe that he meant we should "dissolve the United States" as you posted above.

But even your reinterpretation should be challenged in my opinion.



Post where I said this or stop lying saying that I did.

I will add the link as soon as I am done with the appropriate sentence in bold so that you can stop being so "insulted".


And I ask again, is Ron Paul the only authority on when a "different time" is applicable to the argument. The reason states are regulated is because in THIS TIME in our history time has taught us that all states are not equal, but the American people should be. Thus, federal guidelines, restrictions, funding, and oversight has developed over time to accomodate the needs of modern society.

If I thought that I would simply link you up to his site rather than bother answering your posts and why I think they are wrong with my own opinion. So why don't you stop asking the question as I have already answered it twice in the negative.

I have no problem moving this conversation to what's wrong with his "smaller government" notion. I have no problem discussing why getting rid of the Department of Education and creating an "unsupervised educational free-for-all among all the states and thousands of countless districts", is a dumb idea.

What you and most Paul supporters do without shame my brother is run from the words of the person you support. Whether that comes from blind loyalty or just ignorance of history makes no difference.

Rubbish, what I do is point out the words that you attempt to ignore in your desperate attempt to make him "evil" in your eyes. Even to the point of pretending that 'returning to the plan of our Founders' means "dissolve the United States".

"The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance."

Are you suggesting that you didn't already know this was a lie? You didn't know that most of the Founders weren't christians? They were Deists who didn't believe in the bible and thought Jesus was a good man but certainly not divine or the son of God. What Paul says here is remarkably dumb and devoid of any historical perspective. I would not imagine someone as informed as you not to know this.
I am suggesting that this is one of the things I disagree with him on, as I stated several times that I wasn't arguing his religious position it is simply an attempt to build another strawman making "assertions" for me and pretending I haven't already stated, "I am not arguing his religious position, I am simply stating that more libertarians associate with Jefferson than with Paine in every circle I have ever run in." or something much like that before now.

Would you have believed or defended that bullshit if Jerry Falwell had said it?

I don't believe or defend it now, that is why this is a strawman argument.

WHAT? You believe the the US was founded on christianity?

Does this help ...

titleXI.jpg


From the 1796 treaty with Tripoli, which states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" . This was not an idle statement meant to satisfy muslims, they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.

Same treaty translated into spanish states that it is an agreement between "Christian Nations", also this treaty was repealed three years afterward and only agreed to because hostages were being held. This treaty is NOT a good argument for your case.

In the original version that was written the words didn't even exist, it was only in the finalized version that was sent out after the vote that the words were added in the English version. Amazingly the Arabic version didn't have the SAME WORDS in it.

HOWEVER, I am not arguing that it is a Christian Nation, only that they did not argue to exclude religion from public life.

You may not have suggested it BUT IT IS EXACTLY WHAT PAUL SAID. " .. with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance."

Your "strawman" is a dodge from dealing with his lunatic ramblings.

It is not a strawman to suggest disagreement with Paul on this particular area yet give an even different opinion of my own. It IS a strawman to pretend that such an opinion is in support of R. Paul's position.

I ask again, where is religion forbidden from public life? Are you saying that you do not know that Jefferson was FOR forbidding religion from government .. which is the question that you keep dodging by talking about "public life". Where did I say religion shouldn't be part of public life?

I am saying that he believes that it is the direction that the nation is running and is why he makes that argument.

Funny, because I never said that either.



Read this closely .. Not only do I not believe in religion in government, neither did Jefferson, whom you claim an affinity with. What I said in simplistic terms is that Jefferson didn't believe in religion in government, but you disagree with that or merely feel compelled to defend Paul.



There you go again.

Except I don't.

Read this slowly .. But I cannot think of a worse candidate for president than someone so completely removed from reality and so compltely devoid of any sense of socio-ethical responsibility as Ron Paul. In simple terms, in my opinion Ron Paul is every bit the kook many people think him to be. He's not connected the this century and his flaws and faults go way beyond the issue of centralized government.

And I read it.

And finally, here is the link to your assertion that R. Paul wants to "dissolve the US".

http://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?p=125181#post125181

And as I stated I would BOLD the sentence that you can't seem to remember typing:

However, he has argued for the dissolution of the United States, which is odd to say the least for someone so wed to the Constitution. He believes there is no need for the Federal government at all and America should be reduced to a bunch of nation-states. .. which lends people to believe he's crazy.

Note, that it is fully in context and could not otherwise be interpreted, nor does it have any additional information that would make it mean anything other than you posted that R. Paul wants to "dissolve the United States".
 
Leftwing, rightwing, christian, muslim, etc all like centralized power.

What is better Chaos/Anarchy. Tribal level power, mid level power, national level power, global power ?

You name the level there is centralized power at all levels.

It is a failing of humans.
 
Leftwing, rightwing, christian, muslim, etc all like centralized power.

What is better Chaos/Anarchy. Tribal level power, mid level power, national level power, global power ?

You name the level there is centralized power at all levels.

It is a failing of humans.
What is best is limited government power with the most power given to that of the individual to live as they will so long as they harm no other.
 
What is best is limited government power with the most power given to that of the individual to live as they will so long as they harm no other.

I of course agree, but we are dealing with humans here and that is a pipe dream. Might work in a thousand years or so...but I doubt it.
Learning morality and such starts over with each birth and ends with the death of that human. I don't think we have long enough lifespans to get wise enough.
 
Leftwing, rightwing, christian, muslim, etc all like centralized power.

What is better Chaos/Anarchy. Tribal level power, mid level power, national level power, global power ?

You name the level there is centralized power at all levels.

It is a failing of humans.



WHite power, black power, gay power, there are different bases for alliance. All of them are not centralized however. We are SOCIAL and that is not a failing, but a strength.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis#Kinds_of_transactions
Kinds of transactions

[edit] Reciprocal or Complementary Transactions

A simple, reciprocal transaction occurs when both partners are addressing the ego state the other is in. These are also called complementary transactions.

Example 1

A: "Have you been able to write the report?" (Adult to Adult)
B: "Yes - I'm about to email it to you." (Adult to Adult)

Example 2

A: "Would you like to come and watch a film with me?" (Child to Child)
B: "I'd love to - what shall we go and see?" (Child to Child)

Example 3

A: "Is your room tidy yet?" (Parent to Child)
B: "Will you stop hassling me? I'll do it eventually!" (Child to Parent)

Communication like this can continue indefinitely. (Clearly it will stop at some stage - but this psychologically balanced exchange of strokes can continue for some time).

[edit] Crossed Transactions

Communication failures are typically caused by a 'crossed transaction' where partners address ego states other than that their partner is in. Consider the above examples jumbled up a bit.

Example 1a:

A: "Have you been able to write that report?" (Adult to Adult)
B: "Will you stop hassling me? I'll do it eventually!" (Child to Parent)

is a crossed transaction likely to produce problems in the workplace. "A" may respond with a Parent to Child transaction. For instance:

A: "If you don't change your attitude you'll get fired"

Example 2a:

A: "Is your room tidy yet?" (Parent to Child)
B: "I'm just going to do it, actually." (Adult to Adult)

is a more positive crossed transaction. However there is the risk that "A" will feel aggrieved that "B" is acting responsibly and not playing his role, and the conversation will develop into:

A: "I can never trust you to do things!" (Parent to Child)
B: "Why don't you believe anything I say?" (Child to Parent)

which can continue indefinitely.

[edit] Duplex or Covert transactions

Another class of transaction is the 'duplex' or 'covert' transactions, where the explicit social conversation occurs in parallel with an implicit psychological transaction. For instance,

A: "I need you to stay late at the office with me." (adult words)

body language indicates sexual intent (flirtatious child)

B: "Of course." (adult response to adult statement).

winking or grinning (child accepts the hidden motive).

[edit] Phenomena behind the transactions

[edit] Life (or Childhood) Script

* Script is a life plan, directed to a pay-off.
* Script is decisional and responsive, i.e., decided upon in childhood in response to perceptions of the world and as a means of living with and making sense of the world. It is not just thrust upon a person by external forces.
* Script is reinforced by parents (or other influential figures and experiences).
* Script is for the most part outside awareness.
* Script is how we navigate and what we look for, the rest of reality is redefined (distorted) to match our filters.

Each culture, country and people in the world has a Mythos, that is, a legend explaining its origins, core beliefs and purpose. According to TA, so do individual people. A person begins writing his own life story (script) at a young age, as he tries to make sense of the world and his place within it. Although it is revised throughout life, the core story is selected and decided upon typically by age 7. As adults it passes out of awareness. A life script might be "to be hurt many times, and suffer and make others feel bad when I die", and could result in a person indeed setting himself up for this, by adopting behaviours in childhood that produce exactly this effect. Though Berne identified several dozen common scripts, there are a practically infinite number of them. Though often largely destructive, scripts could as easily be mostly positive or beneficial.

[edit] Redefining and Discounting

* Redefining means the distortion of reality when we deliberately (but unconsciously) distort things to match our preferred way of seeing the world. Thus a person whose script involves "struggling alone against a cold hard world" may redefine others' kindness, concluding that others are trying to get something by manipulation.
* Discounting means to take something as worth less than it is. Thus to give a substitute reaction which does not originate as a here-and-now Adult attempt to solve the actual problem, or to choose not to see evidence that would contradict one's script. Types of discount can also include: passivity (doing nothing), over-adaptation, agitation, incapacitation, anger and violence.

[edit] Injunctions and Drivers

TA identifies twelve key injunctions which people commonly build into their scripts. These are injunctions in the sense of being powerful "I can't/mustn't ..." messages that embed into a child's belief and life-script:

Don't be (don't exist), Don't be who you are, Don't be a child, Don't grow up, Don't make it in your life, Don't do anything!, Don't be important, Don't belong, Don't be close, Don't be well (don't be sane!), Don't think, Don't feel.

In addition there is the so-called episcript, "You should (or deserve to) have this happen in your life, so it doesn't have to happen to me."

Against these, a child is often told other things they must do. There are six of these 'drivers':

Be perfect! Please (me/others)! Try Hard! Be Strong! Hurry Up! Be Careful!

Thus in creating their script, a child will often attempt to juggle these, example: "It's okay for me to go on living (ignore don't exist) so long as I try hard".

This explains why some change is inordinately difficult. To continue the above example: When a person stops trying hard and relaxes to be with their family, the injunction You don't have the right to exist which was being suppressed by their script now becomes exposed and a vivid threat. Such an individual may feel a massive psychological pressure which they themselves don't understand, to return to trying hard, in order to feel safe and justified (in a childlike way) in existing.

Driver behaviour is also detectable at a very small scale, for instance in instinctive responses to certain situations where driver behaviour is played out over five to twenty seconds.

Broadly, scripts can fall into Tragic, Heroic or Banal (or Non-Winner) varieties, depending on their rules.

[edit] Series of transactions

[edit] Rituals

A ritual is a series of transactions that are complementary (reciprocal), stereotyped and based on social programming. Rituals usually comprise a series of strokes exchanged between two parties.

For instance, two people may have a daily two stroke ritual, where, the first time they meet each day, each one greets the other with a "Hi". Others may have a four stroke ritual, such as:

A: Hi!

B: Hi! How do you do?

A: Getting along. What about you?

B: Fine. See you around.

The next time they meet in the day, they may not exchange any strokes at all, or may just acknowledge each other's presence with a curt nod.

Some phenomena associated with daily rituals:

* If a person exchanges fewer strokes than expected, the other person may feel that he is either preoccupied or acting high and mighty.
* If a person exchanges more strokes than expected, the other person might wonder whether he is trying to butter him up or get on good terms for some vested interests.
* If two people do not meet for a long time, a backlog of strokes gets built up, so that the next time they meet, they may exchange a large number of strokes to catch up.

[edit] Pastimes

A pastime is a series of transactions that is complementary (reciprocal), semi-ritualistic, and is mainly intended as a time-structuring activity. Pastimes have no covert purpose and can usually be carried out only between people on the same wavelength. They are usually shallow and harmless. Pastimes are a type of smalltalk.

Individuals often partake in similar pastimes throughout their entire life, as pastimes are generally very much linked to ones life script and the games that one often plays. Some pastimes can even be understood as a reward for playing a certain game. For example, Eric Berne in Games People Play discusses how those who play the "Alcoholic" game (which Berne differentiated from alcoholism and alcoholics) often enjoy the "Morning After" pastime in which participants share their most amusing or harrowing hangover stories.

[edit] Other kinds of transactional series

The other kinds include procedures, operations and games. Games are discussed below.

[edit] Games and their analysis

[edit] Definition of game

A game[4] is a series of transactions that is complementary (reciprocal), ulterior, and proceeds towards a predictable outcome. Games are often characterized by a switch in roles of players towards the end. Games are usually played by Parent, Adult and Child ego states, and games usually have a fixed number of players; however, an individual's role can shift, and people can play multiple roles.

Berne identified dozens of games, noting that, regardless of when, where or by whom they were played, each game tended towards very similar structures in how many players or roles were involved, the rules of the game, and the game's goals.

Each game has a payoff for those playing it, such as the aim of earning sympathy, satisfaction, vindication, or some other emotion that usually re-enforces the life script. The antithesis of a game, that is, the way to break it, lies in discovering how to deprive the actors of their payoff.

Students of transactional analysis have discovered that people who are accustomed to a game are willing to play it, even if as a different "actor" from what they originally were.

[edit] Analysis of a game

One important aspect of a game is its number of players. Games may be two handed (that is, played by two players), three handed (that is, played by three players), or many handed. Three other quantitative variables are often useful to consider for games:

* Flexibility: The ability of the players to change the currency of the game (that is, the tools they use to play it). In a flexible game, players may shift from words, to money, to parts of the body.

* Tenacity: The persistence with which people play and stick to their games and their resistance to breaking it.

* Intensity: Easy games are games played in a relaxed way. Hard games are games played in a tense and aggressive way.

Based on the degree of acceptability and potential harm, games are classified as:

* First Degree Games are socially acceptable in the players' social circle.
* Second Degree Games are games that the players would like to conceal, though they may not cause irreversible damage.
* Third Degree Games are games that could lead to drastic harm to one or more of the parties concerned.

Games are also studied based on their:

* Aim
* Roles
* Social and Psychological Paradigms
* Dynamics
* Advantages to players (Payoffs)

[edit] Contrast with rational (mathematical) games

Transactional game analysis is fundamentally different from rational or mathematical game analysis in the following senses:

* The players do not always behave rationally in transactional analysis, but behave more like real people.
* Their motives are often ulterior

[edit] Some commonly found games

Here are some of the most commonly found themes of games described in Games People Play by Eric Berne:

* YDYB: Why Don't You, Yes But. Historically, the first game discovered.
* IFWY: If It Weren't For You
* WAHM: Why does this Always Happen to Me? (setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy)
* SWYMD: See What You Made Me Do
* UGMIT: You Got Me Into This
* LHIT: Look How Hard I've Tried
* ITHY: I'm Only Trying to Help You
* LYAHF: Let's You and Him Fight (staging a love triangle)
* NIGYYSOB: Now I've got you, you son of a bitch

Berne argued that games are not played logically; rather, one person's Parent state might interact with another's Child, rather than as Adult to Adult.

Games can also be analysed according to the Karpman drama triangle, that is, by the roles of Persecutor, Victim and Rescuer. The 'switch' is then when one of these having allowed stable roles to become established, suddenly switches role. The victim becomes a persecutor, and throws the previous persecutor into the victim role, or the rescuer suddenly switches to become a persecutor ("You never appreciate me helping you!").
 
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It is also a failing.
Fear of being kicked out of your social group will make many go against their better judgement or principles.

Many of us will sell our souls to be accepted into a group.
 
It is also a failing.
Fear of being kicked out of your social group will make many go against their better judgement or principles.

Many of us will sell our souls to be accepted into a group.

Some groups value large amounts of individuality. can you get your mind around that, grandpa simpson?
 
Some groups value large amounts of individuality. can you get your mind around that, grandpa simpson?

Name one ?
What you said sounds a bit mutally exclusive there, groups supporting individuality ?

Not denyong their existance, just think they are a bit rare.
 
"Why not think about getting rid of the federal government, returning to the system of our Founders, and breaking up the United States into smaller government units?"

Self-explanatory. It does not require a constitutional lawyer to interpret what he's saying.

Yeah, it is all right there... Why not think about... Clearly he is entertaining an idea not necessarily proposing it.

I will go one better, why not think about getting rid of all levels of government. Unless, of course, you are afraid to deal in ideas and would rather stick to smears, distortion and hyperbole.

Once again, you run from what he said. "The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance." He did not say a few of them. He catagorically spoke for the body of them, which is false. I quoted Jefferson, Madison, Washington, and Adams, THE most influential of the founders. The principal Founding Fathers .. Madison, Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, were in fact deeply suspicious of religion. Ben Franklin was even less religious than the others and did not believe in the divinity of Christ. Didn't you already know this?

You can find quotes from some, but you will not find anything that remotely validates what Paul has said here.

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. Washington Farewell Address

Twenty times in the course of my late reading have I been on the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!" But in this exclamation I would have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company, I mean hell. John Adams letter to Jefferson

I could come up with quotes for all, the important thing is they are not arguing for a Christian state and Paul did not imply they did. They are merely arguing the importance of religion in the culture.


Do you think Paul the only authority on the Constitution and Founders? Did you not already know that the Founders were not deeply steeped in religion? How is it that you didn't challenge Paul on this yourself when you certainly must have known his assertion to be false?

His assertion is not false. The strawman you constructed from it is.

Again, that's your opinion and I respect it. However, the problem for you and Paul's supporters is that he has said a lot of really dumb and unfounded shit that usually plays well to the crowds he's used to talking to. Now that dumb shit is being analyzed by the general public, and his supporters are scrambling to re-interpret what he said to make it sound the less bit sane, and deny anything he said that cannot be made to appear that it didn't come from a deranged mind. His appeal is to people who don't know much about politics or history.

What I find hard to take serious is your belief that no one knows the Founders had no intention of creating a Christian government. The questions be asked and raised are legitimate questions but his supporters pretend they no one has the right to raise these questions.

As I'm sure you're aware, I do not, and have never supported George Bush. But I cannot think of a worse candidate for president than someone so completely removed from reality and so compltely devoid of any sense of socio-ethical responsibility as Ron Paul.

No, the dumbshit is you and your dishonest twisting of what he said. Paul did not claim the founders intended a Christian government. It is clear by the very words you quote that he rejects that notion and by his many other words. He is simply stating the unquestioned truth that many of the founders believed religion was important in the private sphere of the nation.
 
Name one ?
What you said sounds a bit mutally exclusive there, groups supporting individuality ?

Not denyong their existance, just think they are a bit rare.
Modern socialists value individuality above almost anything else. ;)

That's true, actually, though I don't expect AssWipe to recognize it.
 
I of course agree, but we are dealing with humans here and that is a pipe dream. Might work in a thousand years or so...but I doubt it.
Learning morality and such starts over with each birth and ends with the death of that human. I don't think we have long enough lifespans to get wise enough.
I don't think we need any special wisdom to live this way. You simply make laws that support it and practice it. Take those who refuse to stop victimizing others out of the loop entirely and continue to let those responsible enough to live their own life without harm to others freedom to make decisions for their own life.
 
Leftwing, rightwing, christian, muslim, etc all like centralized power.

What is better Chaos/Anarchy. Tribal level power, mid level power, national level power, global power ?

You name the level there is centralized power at all levels.

It is a failing of humans.

Not all. Within disbursed and freely chosen associations power can not truly be centralized.
 
That says everything that need be said.

Yes, since it is true. Paul is merely pointing out the founders belief in the importance of religion in the private sphere (which was intended to be quite larger than it is now). You are being dishonest and claiming that he is arguing for some sort of theocracy.
 
Won't work with humans, except for maybe a small select portion of the population.

It will work and does work. It's this level of decentralization that unleashed the true power of humanity. Now old world totalitarians are trying to bring the world back to the hierarchical and retrograde days of yore.
 
It hardly matters if Paul supporters agree with my perspective of him or not .. the only way he or his insane politics enter the White House is as a guest.

I am amazed, though not shocked, at the blindness and naivety of his supporters.

This kook is running as an anti-corporatist, when he's in fact the corporations best friend .. and in some cases their only friend.

Case in point .. H.R. 180: Darfur Accountability and Divestment Act of 2007, a bill establishes a list of those having "a direct investment in, or is conducting, business operations in Sudan's power production, mineral extraction, oil-related, or military equipment industries." It authorizes state and local governments to divest their (the state or local government's) assets from those persons. It also prohibits the federal government from awarding or renewing contracts to anyone on the list.

The bill passed 418 - 1

The ONLY dissenting vote .. Ron Paul.

His reason .. "We shouldn't tie the hands of corporations by limiting their business dealings."

Corporations making taxpayer money off genocide and we "shouldn't tie their hands."

Yet to his blind supporters, he's anti-corporatist.

The good news is that most of America is smarter than that.
 
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