Later this month. We're headed to NY.
Same-sex couples begin marrying
- Thread starter USFREEDOM911
- Start date
Later this month. We're headed to NY.
Why not WA? Waaay better looking, especially this time of year.
He might give them AIDS.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
congratulations.
interestingly, my aunts have chosen not to marry, been together almost two decades....
Too far away.
Zombie Jesus
Verified User
So? If a brother or an amigo wanna vote for Obama because he's half black then that's their prerogative the same way it's yours that you wouldn't because he's half black.
What was the alternative? A RINO Mormon douche bag with a bunch of greenbacks who cheats on his taxes? Did you see some of the fucked up shit he did to Massachusetts as governor?
"I have a sudden urge to puke" ~ bravo
Historically, African Americans have not supported gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular in any significant numbers.
Within the community, there are unspoken concerns, particularly among older people, that to accept gays as victims of discrimination somehow diminishes the discrimination blacks have endured.
Some have even said that given the challenges in the black community — from education to health care — marriage for gays cannot be a priority, despite a significant number of African Americans in same-sex relationships.
But ultimately for many, the Bible is the final arbiter.
"People have a hard time advocating for something that is biblically wrong," said André Sims, senior pastor of Christ the King Bible Fellowship in Federal Way, who has participated in recent rallies in favor of traditional marriage.
"Same-gender relations are wrong because of what God said about them."
Votes in four states
Next month voters will settle questions around gay marriage in Maine, Minnesota, Maryland and here in Washington, the first real tests of whether America's attitude on such unions has softened in recent years. Washington's Referendum 74 would allow same-sex couples to marry.
Campaigns on both sides of the debate are making an effort to reach black voters.
In Maryland, for example, TV ads specifically target African Americans, who make up a larger proportion of the population there than in any state outside the Deep South, and where the effort to undo a gay-marriage law is being led by black pastors.
In Washington — with a smaller black population but a Ref. 74 contest so close that every vote is likely to matter — campaign videos and ads from both supporters and opponents feature African Americans.
Publicly, some black pastors here have taken a stand on either side of the issue while others have remained silent.
In none of the states where voters are being asked to approve or reject same-sex marriage would churches and religious leaders be required to perform such weddings.
Yet many conservative religious leaders — including some black pastors — believe stripping gender from the state's marriage laws could have negative consequences for society in general.
Sims, of Christ the King in Federal Way, acknowledged criticisms that the Bible also was used to condone slavery and restrict civil rights, but said the trouble with biblical interpretations is often with who's doing the interpreting.
He said that approval of Ref. 74 would confer no new rights on gay and lesbian couples but would change how marriage is defined.
"When we start talking about moving genders to fit into this redefinition of marriage ... we are advocating something that I believe the Scripture doesn't advocate or approve of," Sims said.
But other black pastors in Washington state and across the country argue that trying to justify discrimination under the guise of religion is simply wrong.
On Mother's Day, Leslie Braxton, senior pastor of New Beginnings Christian Fellowship in Renton, who has participated locally in debates on the side of gay marriage, delivered a sermon entitled "What to do about same-sex marriage?"
In a free society, Braxton told his congregation, all people have the right to live according to their conscience.
He recalled his first sermon as a rookie preacher 30 years ago, when to get what he called a "cheap Amen," he invoked an often-used refrain: "God did not make Adam and Steve, he made Adam and Eve."
Later, he said, "our gay musicians played the hymn of invitation after I had slapped them all over the pulpit and then depended on them to bring the praise."
"You don't believe in freedom until you believe your neighbor has the right to do what you think they are going to hell for," he said.
"Biblical values"
While national polls now show majority support for gay marriage in the general population and among other racial and ethnic groups, support among black people remains under 50 percent — despite a bump after endorsements by President Obama and the NAACP.
Recently, black pastors in parts of the South and Midwest have encouraged voters to sit out the election or to consider not supporting Obama because of his position.
In Atlanta, Alveda King, a niece of the late Martin Luther King Jr.'s, said she would never suggest that people not vote. But she said she and some pastors are so disturbed by Obama's endorsement they've formed an organization, GodSaid.org, to urge black Americans to vote their "biblical values" rather than a party line.
Such opposition frustrates blacks who support gay rights and struggle to understand how others who have known what it feels like to have rights denied them could do the same to others.
"This is an issue of equality and equity," said James Bible, president of the Seattle chapter of the NAACP and the grandson of an interracial couple.
"It should be the right of all people to embrace and love whomever they choose."
"It's up to organizations that protect and promote civil rights to support such protections for everyone," he said.
Lack of role models
As married gay black men, Marshan and Darrell Goodwin-Moultry represent an almost invisible face in the African-American community.
The two men, in their 30s, legally married in New York in January, and in June they celebrated with a wedding ceremony at the church where both are pastors, which holds its services at Epiphany Church in Madrona.
Their path to the altar involved difficult conversations with family members who ultimately — and in their own way — reached a point of acceptance.
Darrell Goodwin-Moultry's grandmother, Roberta Harris, of Chicago, who is featured in pro-gay-marriage campaign literature, said, "I came to the decision that this is his life. I support him 100 percent; I love him and would never turn my back on him."
She flew to Seattle for the ceremony, which overflowed with family and friends and even complete strangers, who had heard about it through friends of friends and said they wanted to be there to celebrate the two because they'd never been to a wedding for black men.
The men hope they are role models for other black gays, to show that it's possible for those raised, as they were, in the church to remain consistent with their faith while living their lives honestly.
"We recognize that people don't see this," Darrell Goodwin-Moultry said. "In my life, I often look for mentors. ... I feel that's the one thing that's missing. Marshan and I, we don't ever see mentors for ourselves."
Still, the men are not as rare as it might appear.
The 2010 count showed more than 58,000 same-sex couples in the U.S. who are either African American or include an African-American partner.
Tacoma Mayor Marilyn Strickland, who has endorsed the gay-marriage campaign, pointed out that people often evolve in their thinking on this issue when others around them come out of the closet. But historically, she pointed out, coming out of the closet is not so common among African Americans.
The daughter of a Korean mother and an African-American father, Strickland said there's also resistance to same-sex marriage within the Korean community.
"Even if you don't agree with interracial marriage or marriage equality," she said, "don't stand in the way of those who want the same right as everyone else."
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019505673_gaymarriage24m.html
Information in this article, originally published October 23, 2012, was corrected October 24, 2012. A previous version of this story incorrectly stated the name of New Beginnings Christian Fellowship in Renton.
Within the community, there are unspoken concerns, particularly among older people, that to accept gays as victims of discrimination somehow diminishes the discrimination blacks have endured.
Some have even said that given the challenges in the black community — from education to health care — marriage for gays cannot be a priority, despite a significant number of African Americans in same-sex relationships.
But ultimately for many, the Bible is the final arbiter.
"People have a hard time advocating for something that is biblically wrong," said André Sims, senior pastor of Christ the King Bible Fellowship in Federal Way, who has participated in recent rallies in favor of traditional marriage.
"Same-gender relations are wrong because of what God said about them."
Votes in four states
Next month voters will settle questions around gay marriage in Maine, Minnesota, Maryland and here in Washington, the first real tests of whether America's attitude on such unions has softened in recent years. Washington's Referendum 74 would allow same-sex couples to marry.
Campaigns on both sides of the debate are making an effort to reach black voters.
In Maryland, for example, TV ads specifically target African Americans, who make up a larger proportion of the population there than in any state outside the Deep South, and where the effort to undo a gay-marriage law is being led by black pastors.
In Washington — with a smaller black population but a Ref. 74 contest so close that every vote is likely to matter — campaign videos and ads from both supporters and opponents feature African Americans.
Publicly, some black pastors here have taken a stand on either side of the issue while others have remained silent.
In none of the states where voters are being asked to approve or reject same-sex marriage would churches and religious leaders be required to perform such weddings.
Yet many conservative religious leaders — including some black pastors — believe stripping gender from the state's marriage laws could have negative consequences for society in general.
Sims, of Christ the King in Federal Way, acknowledged criticisms that the Bible also was used to condone slavery and restrict civil rights, but said the trouble with biblical interpretations is often with who's doing the interpreting.
He said that approval of Ref. 74 would confer no new rights on gay and lesbian couples but would change how marriage is defined.
"When we start talking about moving genders to fit into this redefinition of marriage ... we are advocating something that I believe the Scripture doesn't advocate or approve of," Sims said.
But other black pastors in Washington state and across the country argue that trying to justify discrimination under the guise of religion is simply wrong.
On Mother's Day, Leslie Braxton, senior pastor of New Beginnings Christian Fellowship in Renton, who has participated locally in debates on the side of gay marriage, delivered a sermon entitled "What to do about same-sex marriage?"
In a free society, Braxton told his congregation, all people have the right to live according to their conscience.
He recalled his first sermon as a rookie preacher 30 years ago, when to get what he called a "cheap Amen," he invoked an often-used refrain: "God did not make Adam and Steve, he made Adam and Eve."
Later, he said, "our gay musicians played the hymn of invitation after I had slapped them all over the pulpit and then depended on them to bring the praise."
"You don't believe in freedom until you believe your neighbor has the right to do what you think they are going to hell for," he said.
"Biblical values"
While national polls now show majority support for gay marriage in the general population and among other racial and ethnic groups, support among black people remains under 50 percent — despite a bump after endorsements by President Obama and the NAACP.
Recently, black pastors in parts of the South and Midwest have encouraged voters to sit out the election or to consider not supporting Obama because of his position.
In Atlanta, Alveda King, a niece of the late Martin Luther King Jr.'s, said she would never suggest that people not vote. But she said she and some pastors are so disturbed by Obama's endorsement they've formed an organization, GodSaid.org, to urge black Americans to vote their "biblical values" rather than a party line.
Such opposition frustrates blacks who support gay rights and struggle to understand how others who have known what it feels like to have rights denied them could do the same to others.
"This is an issue of equality and equity," said James Bible, president of the Seattle chapter of the NAACP and the grandson of an interracial couple.
"It should be the right of all people to embrace and love whomever they choose."
"It's up to organizations that protect and promote civil rights to support such protections for everyone," he said.
Lack of role models
As married gay black men, Marshan and Darrell Goodwin-Moultry represent an almost invisible face in the African-American community.
The two men, in their 30s, legally married in New York in January, and in June they celebrated with a wedding ceremony at the church where both are pastors, which holds its services at Epiphany Church in Madrona.
Their path to the altar involved difficult conversations with family members who ultimately — and in their own way — reached a point of acceptance.
Darrell Goodwin-Moultry's grandmother, Roberta Harris, of Chicago, who is featured in pro-gay-marriage campaign literature, said, "I came to the decision that this is his life. I support him 100 percent; I love him and would never turn my back on him."
She flew to Seattle for the ceremony, which overflowed with family and friends and even complete strangers, who had heard about it through friends of friends and said they wanted to be there to celebrate the two because they'd never been to a wedding for black men.
The men hope they are role models for other black gays, to show that it's possible for those raised, as they were, in the church to remain consistent with their faith while living their lives honestly.
"We recognize that people don't see this," Darrell Goodwin-Moultry said. "In my life, I often look for mentors. ... I feel that's the one thing that's missing. Marshan and I, we don't ever see mentors for ourselves."
Still, the men are not as rare as it might appear.
The 2010 count showed more than 58,000 same-sex couples in the U.S. who are either African American or include an African-American partner.
Tacoma Mayor Marilyn Strickland, who has endorsed the gay-marriage campaign, pointed out that people often evolve in their thinking on this issue when others around them come out of the closet. But historically, she pointed out, coming out of the closet is not so common among African Americans.
The daughter of a Korean mother and an African-American father, Strickland said there's also resistance to same-sex marriage within the Korean community.
"Even if you don't agree with interracial marriage or marriage equality," she said, "don't stand in the way of those who want the same right as everyone else."
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019505673_gaymarriage24m.html
Information in this article, originally published October 23, 2012, was corrected October 24, 2012. A previous version of this story incorrectly stated the name of New Beginnings Christian Fellowship in Renton.
Get over it Bravo...your homophobic view is dying out and none too soon in my view. Move on. The definition of marriage hasn't changed, just the people doing it....now everyone who wants to that isn't a first cousin etc. can get married. Even people of different colors and races are doing it. That wasn't always legal either.
People change. Educate yourself.
Ahhh yes.....people do change, just a little background, nothing to do with same sex marriage but interesting.....
The removal of homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses was not triggered by some scientific breakthrough. There was no new fact or set of facts that stimulated this major change. Rather, it was the simple reality that gay people started to kick up a fuss. Only about 55% of the APA members who voted, favored the change.
So all the people who had this terrible “illness” were “cured” overnight – by a vote!
According to the American Psychiatric Association, until 1974 homosexuality was a mental illness. Freud had alluded to homosexuality numerous times in his writings, and had concluded that paranoia and homosexuality were inseparable. Other psychiatrists wrote copiously on the subject, and homosexuality was “treated” on a wide basis. There was little or no suggestion within the psychiatric community that homosexuality might be conceptualized as anything other than a mental illness that needed to be treated. And, of course, homosexuality was listed as a mental illness in DSM-II.
Today...about 40 years later......its almost normal.....and what is claimed to make it all acceptable.....homosexuals are born homosexual....and that makes all the difference.....
Guess they think people can't possibly be born with a mental illness....Its an interesting history......
Changing norms....
Some men want to live and dress as women
Some women as men,
Some teachers "fall in love" with their students and have sex with them
Some men want to have sex with willing or even unwilling underage children
Some men want to have sex with each other
Some women want to have sex with each other
Some men want to have sex with sheep
Some women want to have sex with mules
Just changing norms.....
Cancel 2020.1
Canceled
Bravo, once again having a difficult time w/ the concept of 2 consenting adults.
Really? Freud on homosexuality:
"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation, it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.). It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime, and cruelty too....
"If [your son] is unhappy, neurotic, torn by conflicts, inhibited in his social life, analysis may bring him harmony, peace of mind, full efficiency whether he remains a homosexual or gets changed...." (reprinted in Jones, 1957, pp. 208-209, from the American Journal of Psychiatry, 1951, 107, 786).
Quit being a fucking idiot.
please don't say people might have aids.
wow.....a little of that paranoia that Freud was talking about showing there Hoooowwwayy.....
And you admit to being bisexual too, huh....?
relax now....they have meds for that I hear.....I didn't mean to cause you any anxiety or an attack of any kind......
hit a little too close to home with that list huh.....don't take it personal....
I guess you know more about the subject than I do......I had to rely on Wiki....
SJJRSJJS
Verified User
How are the wedding vows spoken; "I, Paul Beppler, take you Terry Gilbert, to be my lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until AIDS do us part"?
Terry Gilbert, left, kisses his husband Paul Beppler after wedding at Seattle City Hall, becoming among the first gay couples to legally wed in the state, Sunday, Dec. 9, 2012, in Seattle. Gov. Chris Gregoire signed a voter-approved law legalizing gay marriage Dec. 5 and weddings for gay and lesbian couples began in Washington on Sunday, following the three-day waiting period after marriage licenses were issued earlier in the week. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)
http://ww2.cox.com/myconnection/today/news/national/article.cox?moduleType=apNews&articleId=DA32LKM02
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
Not that I heard; but if you have any information, please share.
That is a lie straight from the bowels of Hell! Now, some places of secular worship, where the worship the creation not the creator are, but not Bible based Churches.
Which translated is "Evangelical"... What's the matter with Kansas eh?