Sin

[Yakuda]

I can always count on a few of you idiots for nothing but drivel. You never disappoint.

So once again attack the messenger instead of the message. Lazy AND stupid

 

[Yakuda]

Tell us what Jesus said about accepting his own death and resurrection as a means of eternal salvation?

Since it went over your head, I’ll just say there’s a difference between forgiveness and atonement. Perhaps your little peabrain can figure it out.

Sure John 14:6

Forgiveness is only half the message dip shit.

 

[Hume]

should there be standards of behavior at all, for individuals to look to when deciding their own actions?

Yes.

 

[Yakuda]

Yes.

Who should decide what they standards should be?

 

[Kamala Trump]

I think

Who should decide what they standards should be?

its not that someone decides it's that certain behaviors work to facilitate human advancement, like cooperation and non-aggression.

high trust societies allow us to do more.

 

[Kafka]

I listened to an interesting podcast from a Biblical scholar about sin, especially the Original Sin.

She asked listeners, “What is sin” and “What was actually wrong with eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil”?

Her take on sin is that it is a harmful concept to all of us. That it brings on unnecessary guilt. That it causes many to believe they’re always falling short. Never good enough. That, especially related to things like gays and abortion, it brings upon untold suffering to our fellow humans.

Original Sin? She asks why is having your eyes opened, to be aware of and recognize good and evil, to have a conscience and bad thing? As Genesis states, ‘to be like one of the gods’.

For me, an atheist as far as the Christian god goes, there is no such thing as sin. That’s a theological concept. But, I agree with her premise that the concept itself is not useful. And is, in fact, harmful to all of us.

Personally I see the "garden of Eden" story as being a metaphor for "growing up". As a child you are innocent and you don't know right from wrong, but when you come of age you are now RESPONSIBLE for your choices. You know right from wrong and you must now be held responsible for the choices you make.

 

[Kafka]

Agree. The concept of sin and original sin are extremely damaging and horrible theology.

The concept of sin most certainly is not a bad concept. Everyone is capable of doing wrong. They key is to remain aware that you are capable of doing wrong and altering your course.

Say someone on a forum spends all their time telling people to "kill themselves" as BidenPresident used to do on this very forum. That is a wrong thing to do... a "sin" if you will. The value of knowing about "sin" is the ability to see in oneself error.

The concept of "original sin" I will agree is pretty corrosive unless you re-cast as knowing that as mere humans we are all flawed and imperfect and capable of "sin".

 

[Kafka]

Always the Christian who spews hatred.

Self awareness is one of the keys to any solid philosophy. One should always know one's own capability of evil before sitting in judgement of others. For instance, a poster who spews hatred all the time and attacks other posters and lies about them should probably not try to decree who ELSE is a sinner.

 

[Kafka]

Sure John 14:6

Forgiveness is only half the message dip shit.

The concept of "forgiveness" is interesting. It is central to Christianity but it is easily one of the hardest things for anyone to actually do. Just look at this forum for instance. There are posters here who desire to hold their grudges like precious jewels. Their hatred is their reward and they worship it. Even when someone tries to apologize and move forward the grudges hold and the hatred continues.

In no small way we see it writ large in the world today. The hatred we see in Palestine/Israel will likely never abate until they have immolated each other.

I think Jesus' teachings to "love thy enemy" and to forgive are the hardest things for anyone to follow. I am fascinated at some of the posters on here who claim to care about the "teachings" of Jesus but can't let go of their festering hatred.

Hatred is among the most delicious things for humans.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Yep. Biblical scholars.

They’re very easy to find in youtube podcasts. I even listen to the apologists who try to counter those scholars with their dogmatic approach.

But, as one who has no intellectual curiosity, you’ll not bother. You’ll merely punch in with your normal blather.

still afraid to link to said "biblical scholar"......I expect it's Bruce......the guy who brags about the fact he's never studied theology because he doesn't want his learning to be "tainted".......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

LOL

Is that the best response you have? Really?

on the other hand, it kicked your response in the ass all the way to next Wednesday........

 

[PostmodernProphet]

The concept of "forgiveness" is interesting. It is central to Christianity but it is easily one of the hardest things for anyone to actually do.

uh, dude......people don't forgive sins......God does.......and he does it to anyone who believes in him.......BELIEVING is what you find hard to do.......

 

[domer76]

Sure John 14:6

Forgiveness is only half the message

should there be standards of behavior at all, for individuals to look to when deciding their own actions?

Yep. Those are societal standards. Manmade, not supernatural.

 

[domer76]

uh, dude......people don't forgive sins......God does.......and he does it to anyone who believes in him.......BELIEVING is what you find hard to do.......

That’s what Paul came up with. A need for faith, and not just any faith, the acceptance of the death and resurrection as atonement.

Different than mere repentance and forgiveness.

We will agree on one thing, since sin is a theological concept, one does have to ask their god for forgiveness. Those of us who reject that concept only have to be forgiven by those we have harmed.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

That’s what Paul came up with. A need for faith, and not just any faith, the acceptance of the death and resurrection as atonement.

Different than mere repentance and forgiveness.

We will agree on one thing, since sin is a theological concept, one does have to ask their god for forgiveness. Those of us who reject that concept only have to be forgiven by those we have harmed.

sorry......I don't take the opinions of atheists on theological matters.....if you want to agree with me on something agree that you're a mindless twit....

 

[Kafka]

uh, dude......people don't forgive sins......God does

Speaking as an atheist I am talking about forgiveness in the larger sense. The sense of "loving your enemy" if you will.

I understand your point but I was "generalizing" it for the larger audience. I apologize if I said anything that might lead you to believe I'm pro-Jesus teachings. I know he's YOURS and YOURS ALONE so you can't possibly allow anyone who isn't like you to see value in his teachings.

His teachings become ash in your mouth.

 

[Kafka]

sorry......I don't take the opinions of atheists on theological matters

And why would you? Your theology, like most believers, is whatever feels good to you to believe so no one can tell you what is rational or irrational.

.....if you want to agree with me on something agree that you're a mindless twit....

No one wants to agree with you. You are simply too repulsive a human being. You are one of the people who seem to worship their hatred and value it.

 

[domer76]

still afraid to link to said "biblical scholar"......I expect it's Bruce......the guy who brags about the fact he's never studied theology because he doesn't want his learning to be "tainted".......

Actually, I did. At my university, we were required to take a year of theology classes.

Back to Biblical scholars. What they fuck are you afraid of, Cletus? Learning that all of the garbage your church has been feeding you all these years is bullshit?

 

[domer76]

sorry......I don't take the opinions of atheists on theological matters.....if you want to agree with me on something agree that you're a mindless twit....

I understand. The Trumper that you are doesn’t allow for truth. Unlike apologists, atheist scholars have no theological ax to grind. Funny thing how so many Biblical scholars became atheists after actually studying the Bible rather than being fed the crap that their religion did for so many years.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Speaking as an atheist I am talking about forgiveness in the larger sense. The sense of "loving your enemy" if you will.

I understand your point but I was "generalizing" it for the larger audience. I apologize if I said anything that might lead you to believe I'm pro-Jesus teachings. I know he's YOURS and YOURS ALONE so you can't possibly allow anyone who isn't like you to see value in his teachings.

His teachings become ash in your mouth.

this thread is discussing theology not sociology.......ironically it is the atheists who turn God's teachings to ash......don't worry though......Jesus can be yours as well, if you repent of your sin of disbelief.......