No, not really. I've spoken to a lot of people that live in union-heavy areas, particularly in the North and the West Coast. Their personal experiences with unions haven't exactly been flattering.
Socialism Vs Capitalism
- Thread starter TexanManWithPlans
- Start date
No, not really. I've spoken to a lot of people that live in union-heavy areas, particularly in the North and the West Coast. Their personal experiences with unions haven't exactly been flattering.
Geeko Sportivo
Verified User
The Republicans are trying to tell women what to do with their own bodies.
The Republicans are trying to tell people what they can smoke and what they can't.
The Republicans are trying to take away the health insurance of 30 Million Americans right in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
The Republicans are trying to keep people from voting.
The Republicans are trying to pollute the air and the water.
The Republicans are trying to collude with Russia to interfere in our elections.
The Republicans are trying their best to spread the deadly virus.
The Republicans are trying to arm the public with machine guns.
The Republicans are inciting violence.
The Republicans want the police to kill minorities.
The Republicans deny science!
The Republicans want to tell people who they can and cannot marry.
The Republicans are trying to defund public education.
The Republicans are trying to end immigration.
The Republicans are trying to end Social Security.
The Republicans are trying to end labor Unions.
Those will do for starters!
I'm pro-choice, but that's not the argument they have. The pro-life argument is that the life of a child takes precedence over a "decision."
Actually, Trump has been mostly hands off about pot. When Sessions was AG, he was a bit invasive, but Sessions got fired before he really did anything.
How so? They haven't actually ended the ACA despite saying they would a few years ago.
They're trying to prevent voter fraud. That's only preventing people from illegally voting.
Reducing needless regulation isn't tantamount to polluting.
Really man? You're still not over the nothing-burger Mueller report?
The Chinese Communist Party would agree with you, but no.
Hah... I wish. Actual machine guns can only be bought by FFLs, or you have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on pre-ban ones.
Uh, the violence is coming from your side -- BLM and Antifa.
No, we just want the police to be able to establish order and apprehend criminals.
Yeah, like how the Democrats deny science regarding sex differences and IQ studies.
Only some of them do that. The tide is turning regarding that sort of thing, even among religious people.
No, we just want people to have school choice -- primarily with regard to expanding charter school markets. Charter schools have been very good for minority communities in particular.
No, we're trying to end illegal immigration.
Hah, I wish. Switching to a superannuation system would be best, but SS is here to stay (until it goes bankrupt).
When considering that many police unions support Trump, yeah... the GOP isn't trying to end unions.
T. A. Gardner
Thread Killer
While Democrats are telling men they have no rights in the reproduction process and can be charged with rape even in consensual sex because women have to be believed regardless of the lack of evidence while also making them responsible for child support even when they knew nothing about the child and had no say in its birth.
So are Democrats, the only difference is the choice of organic material (tobacco v. marijuana)
So are the Democrats. It's called "Medicare for all" in their case.
While the Democrats are trying let the dead, illegally here, and anybody else that wants to vote do so as many times as they like whenever they like.
While the Democrats are trying to force society back to the stone age since the only way to eliminate all pollution is to eliminate all industrial processes.
While the Democrats are colluding with Russia, China, and anyone else that will hand them a big fat campaign donation, and willing to use quid pro quo to get into office.
While Democrats are lying their best about the spread of a disease.
While the Democrats are trying to use government machineguns to control the public.
While the Democrats are carrying out mass violence, looting, and rioting.
While the Democrats want to kill the police both literally and figuratively.
While the Democrats wouldn't know what science is if it ran them over in the street.
While Democrats want to punish anyone who disagrees with them on this subject by imprisonment and confiscation of their wealth.
While the Democrats are propagandizing and dumbing public education down to a point where it's worthless.
While the Democrats are for abolishing borders entirely and letting every sickly moron on the planet in.
While the Democrats are trying to make it the only thing retirees can have.
While the Democrats are tying to end a worker's right to choose or not choose union membership.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Woko Haram,
My bad. I was confusing it with someplace else. No current rioting in Singapore. I retract my previous post. Thank you for prompting me to learn more about Singapore.
From what I have learned it is wishful thinking that the USA could be run like Singapore. Their unique physical location sets them up as an ideal shipping hub, which accounts for much of the prosperity there. Home ownership is over 90%. The populace is quite healthy with obesity rates below 10%.
One admirable aspect of Singapore is that, unlike the USA, they have managed to effectively prevent government corruption. The ramifications of this cannot be understated. Big money is not allowed to corrupt government. Their government MPs are not allowed to be bought and owned by the greedy super-rich.
Singapore operates on a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Tax revenue is used to fund a large and effective government, with nearly a quarter of the economy being run directly by the government:
"Despite market freedom, Singapore's government operations have a significant stake in the economy, contributing 22% of the GDP.[241]" (wiki)
A large part of their economic bounty results from the fact that the government controls the healthcare system, does not permit excessive profiting from healthcare. This leads to Singapore having a very low percentage of the economy being spent on healthcare.
"The government's healthcare system is based upon the "3M" framework. This has three components: Medifund, which provides a safety net for those not able to otherwise afford healthcare, Medisave, a compulsory national medical savings account system covering about 85% of the population, and Medishield, a government-funded health insurance program. Public hospitals in Singapore have a considerable autonomy in their management decisions, and notionally compete for patients, however they remain in government ownership and government appoints their boards and Chief Executive Officers and management reports and is responsible to these boards.[415] A subsidy scheme exists for those on low income.[416] In 2008, 32% of healthcare was funded by the government. It accounts for approximately 3.5% of Singapore's GDP.[417]" wiki
Singapore is the world's most expensive city to live in. As a result, it has become imperative for Singapore to have government programs to provide for the poor in order to improve their living conditions:
"The government provides numerous assistance programmes to the homeless and needy through the Ministry of Social and Family Development, so acute poverty is rare. Some of the programmes include providing between S$400 and S$1000 of financial assistance per month to needy households, providing free medical care at government hospitals, and paying for children's tuition.[253][254][255] Other benefits include compensation for gym fees to encourage citizens to exercise,[256] up to S$166,000 as a baby bonus for each citizen,[257] heavily subsidised healthcare, financial aid for the disabled, the provision of reduced-cost laptops for poor students,[258] rebates for costs such as public transport[259] and utility bills, and more.[260][261" (wiki)
Despite having extensive socialist government programs to help the poor with government assistance, education and healthcare, people have not become addicted to government hand-outs, primarily because (unlike the USA) there is ample opportunity to work at well-paying jobs. That is why home ownership is so high, and there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Singapore. They have truly shared the wealth and this has resulted in widespread wealth distribution. 1 out of every 6 households in Singapore is worth at least a million dollars.
My bad. I was confusing it with someplace else. No current rioting in Singapore. I retract my previous post. Thank you for prompting me to learn more about Singapore.
From what I have learned it is wishful thinking that the USA could be run like Singapore. Their unique physical location sets them up as an ideal shipping hub, which accounts for much of the prosperity there. Home ownership is over 90%. The populace is quite healthy with obesity rates below 10%.
One admirable aspect of Singapore is that, unlike the USA, they have managed to effectively prevent government corruption. The ramifications of this cannot be understated. Big money is not allowed to corrupt government. Their government MPs are not allowed to be bought and owned by the greedy super-rich.
Singapore operates on a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Tax revenue is used to fund a large and effective government, with nearly a quarter of the economy being run directly by the government:
"Despite market freedom, Singapore's government operations have a significant stake in the economy, contributing 22% of the GDP.[241]" (wiki)
A large part of their economic bounty results from the fact that the government controls the healthcare system, does not permit excessive profiting from healthcare. This leads to Singapore having a very low percentage of the economy being spent on healthcare.
"The government's healthcare system is based upon the "3M" framework. This has three components: Medifund, which provides a safety net for those not able to otherwise afford healthcare, Medisave, a compulsory national medical savings account system covering about 85% of the population, and Medishield, a government-funded health insurance program. Public hospitals in Singapore have a considerable autonomy in their management decisions, and notionally compete for patients, however they remain in government ownership and government appoints their boards and Chief Executive Officers and management reports and is responsible to these boards.[415] A subsidy scheme exists for those on low income.[416] In 2008, 32% of healthcare was funded by the government. It accounts for approximately 3.5% of Singapore's GDP.[417]" wiki
Singapore is the world's most expensive city to live in. As a result, it has become imperative for Singapore to have government programs to provide for the poor in order to improve their living conditions:
"The government provides numerous assistance programmes to the homeless and needy through the Ministry of Social and Family Development, so acute poverty is rare. Some of the programmes include providing between S$400 and S$1000 of financial assistance per month to needy households, providing free medical care at government hospitals, and paying for children's tuition.[253][254][255] Other benefits include compensation for gym fees to encourage citizens to exercise,[256] up to S$166,000 as a baby bonus for each citizen,[257] heavily subsidised healthcare, financial aid for the disabled, the provision of reduced-cost laptops for poor students,[258] rebates for costs such as public transport[259] and utility bills, and more.[260][261" (wiki)
Despite having extensive socialist government programs to help the poor with government assistance, education and healthcare, people have not become addicted to government hand-outs, primarily because (unlike the USA) there is ample opportunity to work at well-paying jobs. That is why home ownership is so high, and there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Singapore. They have truly shared the wealth and this has resulted in widespread wealth distribution. 1 out of every 6 households in Singapore is worth at least a million dollars.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Woko Haram,
The flaw I see in your view is that you still seem to think a choice must be made between capitalism and socialism.
Have you never accepted that the two can co-exist?
Are you clinging to a false idea that countries must choose one or the other?
The flaw I see in your view is that you still seem to think a choice must be made between capitalism and socialism.
Have you never accepted that the two can co-exist?
Are you clinging to a false idea that countries must choose one or the other?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Woko Haram,
An irrelevant personal anecdote which does not address my contention:
"The anti-union thing is a meme perpetrated by the super-rich to squash worker rights, reduce worker pay and benefits, and making working suck.
It's all part of really rich people being chintzy and cheating the common man to further their own vast wealth."
An irrelevant personal anecdote which does not address my contention:
"The anti-union thing is a meme perpetrated by the super-rich to squash worker rights, reduce worker pay and benefits, and making working suck.
It's all part of really rich people being chintzy and cheating the common man to further their own vast wealth."
Yakuda
Verified User
You realize don't you that union members are the useful idiots of union leaders and "the super-rich" who work in concert to get rich off the back of that labor. You're an idiot if you're in a union
Truck Fump / h1b
Verified User
if one's capitalism allows bank and corporate bailouts but not aid programs for individuals, then one is most assuredly a fascist.
All of that is true, although the American government has a larger stake in our economy than Singapore's government has in theirs. By the most recent estimates, roughly 35% of the US GDP is from government spending. Singapore's 22% is pretty low when compared to most other countries in the First World. It's about 40% in the UK, 45% in Germany, 39% in Japan, and 57% in France. One of the few major economies in the First World with a lower percentage is South Korea at about 21%.
You've reversed what actually happened with the last 2 sentences. They share the wealth because they have so much to begin with. Singapore became wealthy by having a very free market. The public amenities are a luxury provided by the results of said free market.
Now, if you're arguing that we should free the market here more before taking Singapore's approach, I'd be all for that. That doesn't seem to be the plan that Democrats have, however.
Well, your contention is baseless to begin with, but if you want a more direct response, public sector unions hold taxpayers hostage and should be disbanded.
As for private sector unions, most conservatives are not against the right of collective bargaining in the private sector. They just hate public sector unions for the reason stated above.
That being said, several police unions have been supportive of Trump, and he has given them support in return.
It has not existed just like capitalism has not. All countries are a mix. The argument is who gets the profits that come from labor. In America, it goes to the top 1 percent. That is a road to plutocracy.
NORWAY COULD NOT SURVIVE W/O CAPITALISM FEEDING THEM.
Global media (especially in the US) likes to portray Norway and Scandinavia as socialist. But “cuddly capitalism” is a much more accurate term.
https://www.lifeinnorway.net/scandinavian-socialism/
TexanManWithPlans
Verified User
Lol.
YEAH. HILARIOUS YOU TRYING TO PRETND NORWAY IS ACTUAL "SOCIALISM".
TexanManWithPlans
Verified User
I didn't even click that link because I don't want to risk getting a virus. I just laugh at how you're finally coming around to see that socialist capitalism is a real thing.
There are lots of things that are real. That's doesn't automatically make them good like you seem to believe.
Barack Obama as President was real. We both know nothing he did was good.
Yakuda
Verified User
Are you ready to tell half the Americans who don't pay federal income tax now that they will have to start paying those taxes when you institute this "socialist nirava"? It's the only way you can afford it. The fact is you fuckers use taxes too punish "the rich". You dumbasses think you will fund it by taxing the rich. You're all idiots
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
You want to abolish even capitalist human rights, eh? Fits with the plans of your nazi Fuhrer, doubtless. Incidentally, the usual definition of 'socialism' in the United States is 'normal capitalism', so do stop trying to have it both ways and talk about the real thing at the same time. You live in a weird place where they all pretend to be their own weird notion of Adam Smith (whom they've never read) but differ from the rest of the world mainly in paying twice as much as anyone else for a hugely-inefficient system of medicine-for-profit and in allowing the mugs to murder others with bang-bangs. Just seem silly to most of the world, these weirdo games.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Woko Haram,
You have failed to show cause and effect. Claiming that Singapore's economic and social success is because of a freer market is not supported in any links that you've posted. It is conjecture. What is widely agreed is that Singapore's success is due to it's physical positioning as a central shipping hub.
You have failed to show cause and effect. Claiming that Singapore's economic and social success is because of a freer market is not supported in any links that you've posted. It is conjecture. What is widely agreed is that Singapore's success is due to it's physical positioning as a central shipping hub.