Suspending Reality

[Dutch Uncle]

The placebos.

That’s what I call the night crew at my work. They don’t actually do anything. They just think they do.

Your consistent disrespect for your fellow human beings remains unbroken, domer.

Do you consider yourself to be a happy person?

 

[Cypress]

I'm certain you'll find it interesting.

Agreed that a move away from dogmatic religion isn't moving toward atheism as the militants assert. Agreed spirituality is still strong. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/12/07/spirituality-among-americans/


Agreed on your points that spirituality doesn't require a "Creator god". That said, I think a collective intelligence can be seen as a "god" even if it's not an old man on a throne dictating who goes to Heaven or Hell.

Good point. In one way of looking at it, the Tao is just another face of a "god"

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Good point. In one way of looking at it, the Tao is just another face of a "god"

It's another way of looking at human views of what lies beyond mortal existence. IMO, it's a less dogmatic view than the Abrahamic religions, but it's still just a view. A facet.

One analogy is four people sitting on the four sides of a card table looking at the same diamond ring. Each only sees the facet on their side. It's the same diamond, but with four different views.

Human beings can barely comprehend their own planet (e.g. Global Warming) let alone the entire Universe. Comprehending what's beyond the physical Universe would be even more incomprehensible.

 

[domer76]

Your consistent disrespect for your fellow human beings remains unbroken, domer.

Do you consider yourself to be a happy person?

Aw, doc, don’t get your tit in a wringer just because you looked so fucking stupid on another thread. Let it go and move on, Beulah!

 

[Kafka]

It appears to exploit the placebo effect. The power of positive thinking is a powerful tool. It goes along with the idea of "there are no atheists in foxholes". Belief is a strong tool regardless if it's factually based or not.

That isn't homeopathy. I didn't ask if you believed that the placebo effect was real, I asked if you thought that nearly invisible quantities (often merely the "memory" of a quantity) has a therapeutic effect (that is homeopathy).

Or are you agnostic about homeopathy as the homeopaths believe it to work?

 

[Ross Dolan]

Fascinating. I am always amazed at people who cannot carry on a conversation without it becoming personal attacks. I guess your reasoning is limited and hence I can easily dismiss any things you espouse.

Enjoy yourself. In future, though, try to be better.

YOU ought to try to be better, because you are treating your audience as though they are stupid.

You use the descriptor "atheist" because you either believe (suppose, guess, think) that there are no gods...or because you believe (suppose, guess, think) it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Your direct statement about the unlikelihood of all gods...proves that.

Now you are in a snit because I pointed that out to you.

Okay. Consider that to be a personal attack if you must.

A more ethical take would be to see it as a correction...and to acknowledge that it makes sense.

I don't expect that you will do that, though.

I do expect you to consider that last sentence to be another personal attack.

Time for you to grow up.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Aw, doc, don’t get your tit in a wringer just because you looked so fucking stupid on another thread. Let it go and move on, Beulah!

My tits are fine, domer, but thanks for proving my point.

 

[Kafka]

The placebos.

That’s what I call the night crew at my work. They don’t actually do anything. They just think they do.

That's actually kinda funny.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That isn't homeopathy. I didn't ask if you believed that the placebo effect was real, I asked if you thought that nearly invisible quantities (often merely the "memory" of a quantity) has a therapeutic effect (that is homeopathy).

Or are you agnostic about homeopathy as the homeopaths believe it to work?

Ummm, you asked this:

What is your belief in regards to homeopathy?

The fact you are now claiming you posted something entirely different is very interesting to me. It helps paint a picture of your thought processes and personality.

I understand the placebo effect from a behavioral psychology POV.

 

[Cypress]

Richard Dawkins does not post here.

I will continue to use the term militant atheist for anyone claiming knowledge that the majority of religious people are morons, simpletons, deluded fools.

I will mercilessly use the term holy roller for anyone who cites the bible as an inerrant source of literal truth and gives off a whiff of Christian nationalism.

 

[BidenPresident]

I will continue to use the term militant atheist for anyone claiming knowledge that the majority of religious people are morons, simpletons, deluded fools.

I will use the term holy roller for anyone who cites the bible as an inerrant source of literal truth and gives off a whiff of Christian nationalism.

why I don't take you seriously

 

[Cypress]

It's another way of looking at human views of what lies beyond mortal existence. IMO, it's a less dogmatic view than the Abrahamic religions, but it's still just a view. A facet.

One analogy is four people sitting on the four sides of a card table looking at the same diamond ring. Each only sees the facet on their side. It's the same diamond, but with four different views.

Human beings can barely comprehend their own planet (e.g. Global Warming) let alone the entire Universe. Comprehending what's beyond the physical Universe would be even more incomprehensible.

Agreed. One thing that keeps me from claiming I know that the material physical reality we can percieve is everything there is, is the feeling that we have not achieved that kind of omniscience and the suspicion that our souped up chimpanzee brains might not be up to the task of understanding everything, in the way that an aardvark cannot comprehend the Pythagorean theorem.

 

[Kafka]

Ummm, you asked this:


The fact you are now claiming you posted something entirely different is very interesting to me. It helps paint a picture of your thought processes and personality.
\

But to be clear, I never asked about whether you think there is something that could explain homeopathy, I asked what you felt about homeopathy. Changing the subject to the Placebo effect, while quite likely the reason homeopathy has ANY efficacy doesn't change the fact that I asked about homeopathy.

What is your opinion on homeopathy? (Not the placebo effect).

Remember there are people out there who honestly and earnestly believe homeopathy is real and works as advertised for the reasons they have expressed ("like cures like")?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

But to be clear, I never asked about whether you think there is something that could explain homeopathy, I asked what you felt about homeopathy. Changing the subject to the Placebo effect, while quite likely the reason homeopathy has ANY efficacy doesn't change the fact that I asked about homeopathy.

What is your opinion on homeopathy? (Not the placebo effect).

Remember there are people out there who honestly and earnestly believe homeopathy is real and works as advertised for the reasons they have expressed ("like cures like")?

You like to mince words, Obi. I don't. Here's what happened:

What is your belief in regards to homeopathy?

It appears to exploit the placebo effect. The power of positive thinking is a powerful tool. It goes along with the idea of "there are no atheists in foxholes". Belief is a strong tool regardless if it's factually based or not.

I gave you my reply. You wanted something else. That's not the way it works with me. Yes, I understand some people believe it just like some people believe "when you're dead, you're dead".

 

[domer76]

That's actually kinda funny.

Thanks. It struck me one day when somebody was describing what a placebo does - nothing. And I thought, “Fuck! That’s our night crew!” (I’m constantly fixing their shit when I open the next morning)

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't say ANY beliefs, just beliefs in the topic of the conversation.



That would be "Strong Atheism" which makes what I also agree is an indefensible claim that "There is no God". That is a universal negative which is impossible to support or prove. So in that sense I will agree with you that some atheists have a "belief" qua belief.

That isn't the type of atheist I am so I tend to dismiss it. Perhaps I am blinded to it.



Now you've met one who merely fails to believe. This is the form of Atheism that is much more defensible and rational.

The Church of No God is not atheism. It's a religion. It is mostly made up of fundamentalists. They try to use 'sCiEnCe' to prove their religion True.

 

[Kafka]

The Church of No God is not atheism. It's a religion. It is mostly made up of fundamentalists. They try to use 'sCiEnCe' to prove their religion True.

Why does someone's belief system threaten you so? Especially when you don't understand it? Is your faith one in which God commands you to sit in judgement? Are you JESUS?

 

[BidenPresident]

Agnostics pretend not to believe in god. They believe in god, they just think expressing skepticism makes it seem rational.

 

[Kafka]

Agnostics pretend not to believe in god. They believe in god, they just think expressing skepticism makes it seem rational.

I sometimes get the sense that many who claim agnosticism are doing so out of fear of offending God by saying the "a-word" (atheist). LOL

In reality the concept of agnosticism is fine. It's whatever someone wishes to think about their position that matters. No one is all one thing or another. It's just annoying when atheists keep getting heaped on with opprobrium and hatred ("militant" labels are a good example) just because they say "Hey, I simply don't believe as you do."

Sure there are loud and obnoxious atheists. There are loud and obnoxious agnostics and loud and obnoxious believers. No one is "clean" in this topic, and no one is "superior".

 

[BidenPresident]

I sometimes get the sense that many who claim agnosticism are doing so out of fear of offending God by saying the "a-word" (atheist). LOL

In reality the concept of agnosticism is fine. It's whatever someone wishes to think about their position that matters. No one is all one thing or another. It's just annoying when atheists keep getting heaped on with opprobrium and hatred ("militant" labels are a good example) just because they say "Hey, I simply don't believe as you do."

Sure there are loud and obnoxious atheists. There are loud and obnoxious agnostics and loud and obnoxious believers. No one is "clean" in this topic, and no one is "superior".

Agnostics assert that knowledge of god cannot be had. But belief in god has nothing to do with knowledge.

They never define god. Catholic god? Muslim god? Hindu god? Zeus? The Prime Mover. Too vague.
They know they are referring to a very specific concept and religious practice.