Teacher's neck broken over iPod...

leaningright said:
Yes, I realize that I am very strict and the discipline I use wouldn't fly in most school systems. My point is that the kids are going to behave the way I want them to behave or they won't be here.

You are correct about those underperforming schools. Most students cannot fulfil their potential in a chaotic environment.
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Well, honestly, that hasn't been my personal experience with underperforming schools. Mainly it's the teachers fault. Personally, I believe boxing kids in is worse for them then allowing a few to speak up every now and again - I mean for God's sake, we've all talked 5 times in class before. It's anal to ruin a kids life over that. You must have an expulsion rate of like 90%.
 
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leaningright said:
To clarify: 1st time = swats, 2nd time (in the 9 week period) = suspension
The suspension is for 2 days and any further offenses of any kind will result in one week and any offenses after that they are deemed a "problem student" and expelled.

To answer the last question you asked, yes we are. The parents have to option of signing their kids out of corporal punishment but very few do (mostly move ins) and most, in fact, highly recommend that we use it. Like I said, we are very rural. For most of these kids, if they get swats at school they get it again at home.

It doesn't happen often though. I have only paddled 2 kids all year and next week is our last week of school. The kids learn the limits and most of them try not to go beyond them. It doesn't matter whether it is out of fear of punishment or out of simple respect for the teacher (most of the time this is the case) my classrooms are quiet and my lessons are structured and my day is organized and runs smoothly more than 90 percent of the time.
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Well, yes. This is one of my main points of disagreement with radical liberals. The main thing that keeps us, as a society, cohesive and non-anarchic is our natural desire to be accepted by others and respected (by people like teachers ;) ). Even the strictest and most totalitarian of governments couldn't control a society that didn't have that. And even a completely unrelegated society, in contrast, won't fall into a complete state of chaos. The same thing pretty much applies to the classroom.

The thing about the troubled kids is that they feel no desire to be accepted by the teachers; they've walled themselves off and refuse to understand the teachers, and all too often the teachers refuse to understand them.
 
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Watermark said:
I think in a civilized society anyone who can't control a child without hitting them shouldn't be allowed to teach.
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Or perhaps we should not have public schools because the parents do not train their children to be fit to attend public schools.

Yeah Yeah it is all the teachers fault....
:tongout:
 
Well, you may laugh at me for this, but this whole IPod kid and teacher thing was basically a misunderstanding. A very fucking big misunderstanding. His anger got inflamed and he believed he had rights over people where he didn't. He most likely regrets it now, but, of course, we still have to punish him. That's the way most mistakes happen. It's not that this kid is "evil", or "unworkable" or anything. We never caught him and controlled him in time. I don't think that corporal punishment, or excessive expulsion, will change anything like that.
 
uscitizen said:
Or perhaps we should not have public schools because the parents do not train their children to be fit to attend public schools.

Yeah Yeah it is all the teachers fault....
:tongout:
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Yeah, Us, I'm biased. I was very tired whenever I said most of this, however, and most of it's vitrol - but take care to notice all of the editing I've done to the posts here.
 
Lets have behaviour screening to see which schools to put children in. But the trouble makers in one and the good children in another one. And not allow inter school sports for the baddies.

Or are we not allowed to differentiate between brats and good children ?
That would be discrimination !!!
 
uscitizen said:
Lets have behaviour screening to see which schools to put children in. But the trouble makers in one and the good children in another one. And not allow inter school sports for the baddies.

Or are we not allowed to differentiate between brats and good children ?
That would be discrimination !!!
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yes, it is discrimination based on behavior, which is fully under an individual's control, unlike his race.
 
uscitizen said:
Lets have behaviour screening to see which schools to put children in. But the trouble makers in one and the good children in another one. And not allow inter school sports for the baddies.

Or are we not allowed to differentiate between brats and good children ?
That would be discrimination !!!
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Behaviour screening? I don't think we'd even know where to begin. You honestly don't have any idea what you're talking about that if you think it's that simple.

Also, many people who would be "behaviour screened" out of the system may very well have benefited emotionally from inter-school sports and never became "baddies" in the first place.
 
Well, US, contrary to what many will tell you a teenagers thoughts are fully under their control. They'll just usually make horrible decisions, because they really don't understand much. This is sort of a point I've always been trying to make. People only understand actions like that by saying that the individual wasn't under control of their behaviour. It's a logical shortcut.

Really, even a schizophrenic is under control of their behaviour. They just are incapable of understanding the world and people around them. And to a lesser degree, this really applies to most "angry" criminals. I'm not saying we shouldn't punish them, now; that would create a disorderous society. But to arbitrarily excuse some things and punish severely other things like that obviously presents some logical hurdles.
 
Watermark said:
You could use Damo's solution.

But kicking them out of the school system would be the worse thing possible. They're fucking kids. They're going to fucking rebel. If you make them angry at the government by ruining their lives through it they're never going to stop being angry kids.
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Seriously, one size fits all can never work in education. Those who need different approaches should have a way to get them. We fail society as well as the individual when we simply refuse to educate them.
 
AssHatZombie said:
He may have bad habits from his upbringing, but it's within his control to change it, unlike his race.
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Never had any teen age kids have you ?

My point is to whip the parents butts, it is largely their fault.
And with all those horemones running rampant in teen years, they are pretty much running on what they learned up to that time.
Again parents.
Also I am talking of seperating out the chaff from the grain at an early age not waiting till they break someone's neck.

And have the bad childrens school ran by retired Marine DI's ;)
 
AssHatZombie said:
He may have bad habits from his upbringing, but it's within his control to change it, unlike his race.
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"Habits?" Personality is much more than just a collection of habits. You cannot say with any certainty that the "habits" of childhood can be unlearned by the adult. We are not infinitely maleable.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
"Habits?" Personality is much more than just a collection of habits. You cannot say with any certainty that the "habits" of childhood can be unlearned by the adult. We are not infinitely maleable.
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but Ornot, I think we are dealing with a near teener here..They think all things are possible :)
 
Hummm...

The only thing I can add is has anyone ever noticed the amount of school work that is sent home nowdays...teachers need their 'In Service training' time off..so they send enormous amounts of daily school work home...so most if not all are 'Home Schooling' anyhoo...just food for thought!;)
 
OrnotBitwise said:
"Habits?" Personality is much more than just a collection of habits. You cannot say with any certainty that the "habits" of childhood can be unlearned by the adult. We are not infinitely maleable.
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So you think one's own behavior is just as uncontrollable as one's own skin pigmentation? Is that what you're saying?
 
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