The Beast Revelation

Sure there was.. Apocraphal literature was very popular for about 300 years.

Revelation of John, the original Jewish version..

A critical study: the Jewish original version, as extracted from the canonical book of Revelation (or Apocalypse) of John

http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html
you really ought to avoid those Atheists-R-Us websites......the author of that website has a degree in electrical engineering and knows nothing at all about theology or archaeology...

http://historical-jesus.info/author.html
 
Some Preterists believe that although Christ did come at Pentecost (33 AD) and 70 AD, He will make a final appearance at the end of the world (age).

Others strongly maintain that His second appearance was a spiritual one in 70 AD and that is the end of it.

loi.......you mindless idiot......EVERY Christian believes that Christ will return at the end of times.........there are absolutely NO Christians who think he came back inn 70AD and that "that is the end if it".......where do you get these stupid ideas?.......did Bernard aka "most biblical scholars" tell you that as well?.....
 
Some Preterists believe that although Christ did come at Pentecost (33 AD) and 70 AD, He will make a final appearance at the end of the world (age).

Others strongly maintain that His second appearance was a spiritual one in 70 AD and that is the end of it.

You have yet to deal with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,till you do you got a nothing burger
 
You have yet to deal with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,till you do you got a nothing burger

Revelation tells us who the letter was written to and when it would happen... and it was written AFTER the death of Paul. Further, it contains NO Pauline language or ideas. Do you think Jesus was lying to John of Patmos?

Do you think Jesus was lying to the 7 Jewish Assemblies in Turkey?
 
Revelation tells us who the letter was written to and when it would happen... and it was written AFTER the death of Paul. Further, it contains NO Pauline language or ideas. Do you think Jesus was lying to John of Patmos?

Do you think Jesus was lying to the 7 Jewish Assemblies in Turkey?

You are deflecting away from WHAT is written in
1 Thessalonians 4:16!
Obviously if the dead in Christ,and living in Christ have met him in the air!
There will be no Christian's left on Earth!
That ruins your nonsense that all prophesies were fulfilled in the 1st century
 
You are deflecting away from WHAT is written in
1 Thessalonians 4:16!
Obviously if the dead in Christ,and living in Christ have met him in the air!
There will be no Christian's left on Earth!
That ruins your nonsense that all prophesies were fulfilled in the 1st century

Then you do believe in the Rapture.. Its heresy.. The tribulation was OVER with the fall of Masada.. and they did suffer, sickness, famine and death.

It was the end of the world for the Jews.
 
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself came down from Heaven,with a loud command,and the voice of the Archangel,and the trump it call of God,and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we that are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them will be caught up in the clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air.And so we will be with the Lord forever."

You claim this has already happened!
Now tell me when!

Read it again kudzu
 
Then you do believe in the Rapture.. Its heresy.. The tribulation was OVER with the fall of Masada.. and they did suffer, sickness, famine and death.

It was the end of the world for the Jews.

If it was the end of the world for Jews?
How come Jews came back to Israel since 1948?
You know less about the Bible than anyone I ever ran across.
I don't think he actually read it,but read a bunch of other people's opinions!
I have yet to use the word Rapture!
 
sorry, atheist........Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesies because he was the Messiah........your denials are meaningless........

such an ignorant goy


Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Judaism's idea of the messiah differs substantially from the Christian idea of the Messiah. In Judaism, the messiah's task is to bring in the Messianic Age, a one-time event, and a presumed messiah who is killed before completing the task (i.e. compelling all of Israel to walk in the way of Torah, repairing the breaches in observance, fighting the wars of God, building the Temple in its place, gathering in the dispersed exiles of Israel) is not the messiah

read and learn

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html
 
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Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.


obviously you are wrong about what the Bible says about the second coming, the verses have already been cited in this thread.......
 
obviously you are wrong about what the Bible says about the second coming, the verses have already been cited in this thread.......

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
 
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah’s prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."
 
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

I'm sorry, but I really don't care about the opinions of an atheist of Jewish origins......we are discussing what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ, not the paucity of your faith.......
 
I'm sorry, but I really don't care about the opinions of an atheist of Jewish origins......we are discussing what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ, not the paucity of your faith.......

The Near East was crawling with prophets at the time.. Israel had schools for prophets. They weren't "future tellers".. more like political analysts and commentators.
 
yes it does.....thank you......

Except that everywhere else in scripture Israel is referred to as the servant of God.. and most certainly Jesus wasn't "despised of men".. Quite the contrary, by all accounts the crowds loved him and followed him to hear him speak.
 
Except that everywhere else in scripture Israel is referred to as the servant of God.. and most certainly Jesus wasn't "despised of men".. Quite the contrary, by all accounts the crowds loved him and followed him to hear him speak.

first of all, it isn't true that "everywhere else" Israel is referred to as the servant of God........there are many instances where "servant" is used that do not refer to Israel in general.......second, if he wasn't "despised of men" what do you call his treatment on the day of his crucifixion?........
 
first of all, it isn't true that "everywhere else" Israel is referred to as the servant of God........there are many instances where "servant" is used that do not refer to Israel in general.......second, if he wasn't "despised of men" what do you call his treatment on the day of his crucifixion?........


2 Timothy 2:24
Verse Concepts
The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

2 Corinthians 6:4
Verse Concepts
but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses,

Leviticus 25:42
Verse Concepts
'For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale.

Leviticus 25:55

'For the sons of Israel are My servants; they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Nehemiah 1:10

"They are Your servants and Your people whom You redeemed by Your great power and by Your strong hand.

books were opened.

Ezra 5:11

"Thus they answered us, saying, 'We are the servants of the God of heaven and earth and are rebuilding the temple that was built many years ago, which a great king of Israel built and finished.

sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Joel 2:29

"Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.




Psalm 116:16

O LORD, surely I am Your servant, I am Your servant, the son of Your handmaid, You have loosed my bonds.

Psalm 119:125

I am Your servant; give me understanding, That I may know Your testimonies.

Psalm 143:12

And in Your loving kindness, cut off my enemies And destroy all those who afflict my soul, For I am Your servant.


righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Psalm 105:6
Verse Concepts
O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen ones!

Psalm 105:42
Verse Concepts
For He remembered His holy word With Abraham His servant;

Jeremiah 30:10

'Fear not, O Jacob My servant,' declares the LORD, 'And do not be dismayed, O Israel; For behold, I will save you from afar And your offspring from the land of their captivity And Jacob will return and will be quiet and at ease, And no one will make him afraid.




Exodus 32:13

"Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, 'I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.'"

Judges 2:8

Then Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died at the age of one hundred and ten.

Exodus 14:31

When Israel saw the great power which the LORD had used against the Egyptians, the people feared the LORD, and they believed in the LORD and in His servant Moses.

Nehemiah 1:7

"We have acted very corruptly against You and have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, nor the ordinances which You commanded Your servant Moses.

Nehemiah 1:8

"Remember the word which You commanded Your servant Moses, saying, 'If you are unfaithful I will scatter you among the peoples;

Nehemiah 9:14

"So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

Nehemiah 10:29

are joining with their kinsmen, their nobles, and are taking on themselves a curse and an oath to walk in God's law, which was given through Moses, God's servant, and to keep and to observe all the commandments of GOD our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes;

Daniel 9:11

"Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.

Hebrews 3:5

Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later;

Job 1:8

The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
 
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