The biggest problem facing monotheism.

Daylight63 said:
The sense of the Jewish afterlife is almost never even discussed in the Old Testament. Apart from the Witch of Endor raising Samuel from the dead I can think of vanishingly few if any real mentions of an afterlife. CERTAINLY nothing like the "ultimate justice" heaven/hell type concept.

That required the input of the Greeks to help create a more expansive afterlife concept which was integrated into Christianity.
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^^^ Has never read the books. Thinks all Jews are alike, and they're all ultra-Orthodox and wear funny hats and like weird haircuts.
 
EdwinA said:
^^^ Has never read the books. Thinks all Jews are alike, and they're all ultra-Orthodox and wear funny hats and like weird haircuts.
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Then by all means, show me in the Jewish literature where they have a generalized concept of an afterlife complete with justice for those who were denied it in life and for whom the afterlife is a reward (or a punishment).

Again, these concepts don't really show up in early Christianity since it came out of the Hellenized area of the Middle East. Greek thought infused the early teachings of what ultimately became Christianity and so the concept of the type of "heaven" discussed in Christianity doesn't really seem to appear in the Bible prior to the New Testament.
 
Daylight63 said:
Then by all means, show me in the Jewish literature where they have a generalized concept of an afterlife complete with justice for those who were denied it in life and for whom the afterlife is a reward (or a punishment).

Again, these concepts don't really show up in early Christianity since it came out of the Hellenized area of the Middle East. Greek thought infused the early teachings of what ultimately became Christianity and so the concept of the type of "heaven" discussed in Christianity doesn't really seem to appear in the Bible prior to the New Testament.
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By all means feel free to read it for yourself, dumbass. Are you skeered to do your own homework? You're the one making all these pronouncements re 'Judaism', so post your proof. You do realize Rabbinical Judaism is a newer sect than Christianity, right? It was invented in about 130 A.D., by the survivors of the Bar Kokhba Revolt.

There, your first lesson. Your second exercise is looking up the differences between the original Torah of Moses and the ' Oral Torah' made up much later.
 
EdwinA said:
By all means feel free to read it for yourself, dumbass. Are you skeered to do your own homework? You're the one making all these pronouncements re 'Judaism', so post your proof. You do realize Rabbinical Judaism is a newer sect than Christianity, right? It was invented in about 130 A.D., by the survivors of the Bar Kokhba Revolt.

There, your first lesson. Your second exercise is looking up the differences between the original Torah of Moses and the ' Oral Torah' made up much later.
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So you're saying you can't show me that version of "heaven" and the "afterlife" in Judaism?
 
Daylight63 said:
Then by all means, show me in the Jewish literature where they have a generalized concept of an afterlife complete with justice for those who were denied it in life and for whom the afterlife is a reward (or a punishment).

Again, these concepts don't really show up in early Christianity since it came out of the Hellenized area of the Middle East. Greek thought infused the early teachings of what ultimately became Christianity and so the concept of the type of "heaven" discussed in Christianity doesn't really seem to appear in the Bible prior to the New Testament.
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Rabbinic Judaism as a religious tradition only dates to the second or third century AD, so it's younger than Christianity, and it was influenced by both Hellenic thought and Neoplatonism. So they had the same access to Platonic theories about the immortal soul as the first century Christians.

I would have thought you would have known that since you claimed expertise on Jewish thought. You're getting confused by invoking the first and second temple Judaism of the much earlier Bronze Age, BCE.

I have no intention of ever reading the Talmud. My limited knowledge comes from Jewish scholars Shai Cherry, Isaiah Gafni, Jodi Magnes. That's good enough for me.
 
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Cypress said:
Rabbinic Judaism as a religious tradition only dates to the second or third century AD, so it's younger than Christianity, and it was influenced by both Hellenic thought and Neoplatonism. So they had the same access to Platonic theories about the immortal soul as the first century Christians.
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You miss the point of my question. The whole point of even discussing SOME Jewish sects which don't have an afterlife is to note that your claim that morality is best if it provides "justice" on a universal scale and/or "hope". Lacking an afterlife the Jewish sects which do so would seem to be no better than atheism in terms of offering "hope".

Cypress said:
I would have thought you would have known that since you claimed expertise on Jewish thought.
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What do you mean my "claim"???? I never made such a claim!

I honestly don't know why you can't debate the topic on the merits presented without making other extraneous things up.
 
Daylight63 said:
You miss the point of my question. The whole point of even discussing SOME Jewish sects which don't have an afterlife is to note that your claim that morality is best if it provides "justice" on a universal scale and/or "hope". Lacking an afterlife the Jewish sects which do so would seem to be no better than atheism in terms of offering "hope".



What do you mean my "claim"???? I never made such a claim!

I honestly don't know why you can't debate the topic on the merits presented without making other extraneous things up.
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^^Parasite
 
Daylight63 said:
You miss the point of my question. The whole point of even discussing SOME Jewish sects which don't have an afterlife is to note that your claim that morality is best if it provides "justice" on a universal scale and/or "hope". Lacking an afterlife the Jewish sects which do so would seem to be no better than atheism in terms of offering "hope".



What do you mean my "claim"???? I never made such a claim!

I honestly don't know why you can't debate the topic on the merits presented without making other extraneous things up.
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You started out claiming 'The Old Testament' was the basis of all Jewish theology and eschatology. What you are really talking about is the TaNaKh and its Torah. Your motivation was to claim Jewish people had no hope of ultimate justice, nor had any beliefs about an immortal soul or resurrection of the righteous.

It's been two thousand years since the preistly Sadducces claimed the written Torah was the only canonical Jewish text needed for the sacrificial religion of the second temple period.

The Sadducces are lost to the dustbin of history.

The Pharrises believed there was an oral Torah in addition to the written one, that ultimately blossomed in the Talmud, and this is what radically changed Judaism from an ancient sacrificial cult into the modern Rabbinic Judaism originating in the third century AD.

I can't claim to know what all Jews believe. But I am certain the Orthodox and conservative sects adopted a belief in some kind of ultimate resurrection of the righteous, although it seems to be more ambiguous than the Christian variety
 
Truck Fump / h1b said:
actually he was the first Christian, because he believed himself to be the son of god. he said so.

that makes him Christian.

of course Christ was Christian.
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The books that were written about Jesus portrays him in a certain way. For a variety of reasons, more than likely Jesus didn't view himself as the son of God.
 
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