The biggest problem facing monotheism.

ZenMode said:
The better question is why anyone believes deities exist or afterlife exexists
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Issac Newton, Johannes Kepler, and many scientists today would reply the evidence is all around you: in the creation of the universe, in the mathematical order and rationally intelligibility of the cosmos, in the moral law and aesthetic sensibility of the human mind.


I am surprised you can't think of one piece of proof you would need to be convinced.
 
Daylight63 said:
Huh? You constantly use emotionally charged language and I did the same. Why is it wrong for me to use the same type of language you use ?
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I've never said believing in atheism is exactly like believing in Santa Claus or invisible elephants. That is a direct challenge to a person's intelligence, and is a clear insinuation that they are a moron.

My arguments against both Christians and atheists are based on science, rationality, or philosophical disputation.
 
Cypress said:
Issac Newton, Johannes Kepler, and many scientists today would reply the evidence is all around you: in the creation of the universe, in the mathematical order and rationally intelligibility of the cosmos, in the moral law and aesthetic sensibility of the human mind.


I am surprised you can't think of one piece of proof you would need to be convinced.
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"Issac Newton, Johannes Kepler, and many scientists today would reply the evidence is all around you:"

So, that could be evidence of an all powerful deity just as much as it could be evidence an all powerful 3 headed pink unicorn with swords for legs right? There's no less evidence for an all powerful 3 headed pink unicorn with swords for legs than there is of a human-like God, which is generally how Christians describe their god.

I can think of things that would contribute to believing, but there are too many variables to say, yes, this series of events specifically would absolutely convince me.
 
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Cypress said:
I've never said believing in atheism is exactly like believing in Santa Claus or invisible elephants. That is a direct challenge to a person's intelligence, and is a clear insinuation that they are a moron.

My arguments against both Christians and atheists are based on science, rationality, or philosophical disputation.
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There really shouldn't be "believing in atheism". The word atheism shouldn't even need to exist any more than there's a word for not believing in astrology or alchemy. I don't have to announce that I'm a non-astrologer. People just assume you are reasonable until you say something like "oh, my horoscope said...." and then people know you aren't reasonable.
 
Cypress said:
I've never said believing in atheism is exactly like believing in Santa Claus or invisible elephants.
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I leveraged the example of Santa Claus because it was appropriate to the point you had made. It is a story built on a REAL PERSON that is not a true story.

Cypress said:
That is a direct challenge to a person's intelligence, and is a clear insinuation that they are a moron.
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And your language is just as antagonistic toward atheists, if not moreso. I've been quite pleasant about Christianity because it has teachings in it that I value.

It seems overly important to you that I somehow "hate" Christianity. That is not the case despite your non-stop insistence that it is.

Cypress said:
My arguments against both Christians and atheists are based on science, rationality, or philosophical disputation.
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No they aren't. They are largely based on your emotional DESIRE for "ultimate justice" in the universe. Your posts CONSTANTLY belabor the horrors of the atheist view which lacks anything like "Hope" (your word).

Don't get me wrong. You are 100% perfectly normal for wanting that. Just like children WANT Santa to be real. He isn't. No matter how much we DESIRE it.

And even I want that ultimate justice. I'm just adult enough to admit that I understand that not all that I want is something I'll get.
 
ZenMode said:
There really shouldn't be "believing in atheism". The word atheism shouldn't even need to exist any more than there's a word for not believing in astrology or alchemy. I don't have to announce that I'm a non-astrologer. People just assume you are reasonable until you say something like "oh, my horoscope said...." and then people know you aren't reasonable.
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The reason debaters against atheism insist on atheism's "equal footing" with belief is that the debater realizes that reliance on a belief system unmoored from objective experience is inherently a weaker position. So insisting that atheism is a "belief" (rather than the lack thereof) is usually a sign that the responder is losing the point.
 
Cypress said:
Issac Newton, Johannes Kepler, and many scientists today would reply the evidence is all around you: in the creation of the universe, in the mathematical order and rationally intelligibility of the cosmos, in the moral law and aesthetic sensibility of the human mind.
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Given that great men with great minds believed in God, why do you consider yourself an "agnostic"?
 
Hume said:
What evidence is there that the universe was created?
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The Guth-Vilenkin theorem, which demonstrates for an expanding universe, if you roll the clock backwards there must be an ultimate spacetime origin/boundary, prior to which space and time didn't exist.

I suppose you could claim the universe sprung into existences randomly out of nothing, but that's even more magical thinking than supposing there was a purposeful rational organizing entity.
 
Cypress said:
The Guth-Vilenkin theorem, which demonstrates for an expanding universe, if you roll the clock backwards there must be an ultimate spacetime origin/boundary, prior to which space and time didn't exist.

I suppose you could claim the universe sprung into existences randomly out of nothing, but that's even more magical thinking than supposing there was a purposeful rational organizing entity.
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what is matter if there is an entity or not?

so you can make your little argument to authority fallacious arguments about everything.

like "morality isn't rational, it's because God commands it"?
 
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