The Democrats had my support

StoneByStone said:
If illegal immigrants don't get deported, then what exactly stops anyone from coming here? And how is that not amnesty? We'd essentially be saying that you broke the law, but we'll let you get away with it.
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Okay, how do you deport millions of illegals? Spell it out for me. I can't wait to hear this one. Address the financial implications, and tell me what should be done with Dreamers.

The point is that just because we cannot practically deport every illegal, that does not mean that we are inviting more in. In fact, border crossings are WAY down from a decade ago.
 
StoneByStone said:
If illegal immigrants don't get deported, then what exactly stops anyone from coming here? And how is that not amnesty? We'd essentially be saying that you broke the law, but we'll let you get away with it.
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Also.... question, for you. If someone comes here legally and overstays there visa, what law have they broken?
 
Concart said:
Also.... question, for you. If someone comes here legally and overstays there visa, what law have they broken?
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Overstaying a visa is different. Especially considering how long it takes to get a visa renewed. So when it comes to overstayed visas, I'm pretty sympathetic. But people who cross the border illegally should be deported no matter how long they've been here.
 
StoneByStone said:
Overstaying a visa is different. Especially considering how long it takes to get a visa renewed. So when it comes to overstayed visas, I'm pretty sympathetic. But people who cross the border illegally should be deported no matter how long they've been here.
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The majority of illegals in this country are people who have overstayed their visas. So your position seems incredibly inconsistent. I assume then that you are in favor of eliminating due process for anyone who presents themselves at the border with a claim of asylum? We should eliminate that?
 
Concart said:
Okay, how do you deport millions of illegals? Spell it out for me. I can't wait to hear this one. Address the financial implications, and tell me what should be done with Dreamers.

The point is that just because we cannot practically deport every illegal, that does not mean that we are inviting more in. In fact, border crossings are WAY down from a decade ago.
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The point of having laws isn't to fully eliminate crime, since that's impossible. The point is to reduce crime as much as possible. Of course the government can't deport twelve million immigrants, but they can deport as many as possible. The Democrats are saying we shouldn't be deporting illegals at all, which would make America an open borders country.

As for how we deport them, we do just what we've been doing. You already pointed out that Obama deported tons of illegals. Though I think we should greatly increase profiling. If a bunch of Mexicans are just hanging out in front of Home Depot, they should be checked for ID.
Dreamers should be deported just like any other illegal.
 
Concart said:
The majority of illegals in this country are people who have overstayed their visas. So your position seems incredibly inconsistent.
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How so? I think people who came here illegally should be deported. People who overstayed their visas, it depends on the situation.
My problem with the Democrats is that they don't want to deport ANY illegals.

I assume then that you are in favor of eliminating due process for anyone who presents themselves at the border with a claim of asylum? We should eliminate that?
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Asking for asylum isn't illegal, but we shouldn't take in every single person looking for asylum. Again, depends on the situation.
 
StoneByStone said:
The point of having laws isn't to fully eliminate crime, since that's impossible. The point is to reduce crime as much as possible. Of course the government can't deport twelve million immigrants, but they can deport as many as possible. The Democrats are saying we shouldn't be deporting illegals at all, which would make America an open borders country.

As for how we deport them, we do just what we've been doing. You already pointed out that Obama deported tons of illegals. Though I think we should greatly increase profiling. If a bunch of Mexicans are just hanging out in front of Home Depot, they should be checked for ID.
Dreamers should be deported just like any other illegal.
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'If a bunch of Mexicans are just hanging out in front of Home Depot, they should be checked for ID'

Holy shit. Where do I even start with this. First, who exactly is doing this checking of ID. Are you aware that only the Federal Government is allowed to determine a persons immigration status? So let's start there. Second, in what world do you think what you just described isn't completely, totally and utterly unconstitutional. If you are Latino, you may be asked, with no predicate, to 'show your papers'? Give me a break. You completely lost me.
 
Concart said:
'If a bunch of Mexicans are just hanging out in front of Home Depot, they should be checked for ID'

Holy shit. Where do I even start with this. First, who exactly is doing this checking of ID. Are you aware that only the Federal Government is allowed to determine a persons immigration status? So let's start there. Second, in what world do you think what you just described isn't completely, totally and utterly unconstitutional. If you are Latino, you may be asked, with no predicate, to 'show your papers'? Give me a break. You completely lost me.
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Local governments are allowed to apprehend illegals, even if deportation ultimately falls to the federal government.

I don't care about muh constitution. I care about logic, justice, and what works.
 
StoneByStone said:
Local governments are allowed to apprehend illegals, even if deportation ultimately falls to the federal government.

I don't care about muh constitution. I care about logic, justice, and what works.
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Enough said. If you don't care about the constitution, we have no basis for a discussion. And no, local governments cannot apprehend 'illegals' unless they have probable cause to believe that person has committed SOME OTHER CRIME. But since you don't care about the US Constitution, any further discussion with you is a waste of time.
 
Concart said:
Enough said. If you don't care about the constitution, we have no basis for a discussion. And no, local governments cannot apprehend 'illegals' unless they have probable cause to believe that person has committed SOME OTHER CRIME. But since you don't care about the US Constitution, any further discussion with you is a waste of time.
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Would you at least agree that if the government refused to deport ANY illegals, then we would have open borders?
 
Concart said:
Completely disagree with this statement. I have seen very few Dems advocating for 'open borders'. I guess it depends on your definition. The immigration reform that has been proposed over the last decade is most certainly NOT open borders in any way shape or form. It hasn't been Democrats that have killed immigration reform. It's Republicans. 'Build that Wall' is not a plan. It's a slogan.
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Agree with you about the wall. Zero chance of that happening ever. Dems were once logical about immigration but TDS seems to have caused some of them to lose their minds. And Trump is the cause for TDS with his stupid tweets and obnoxious personality.
Imagine if he had half the wit and charm of a Reagan (I'd settle for a tenth) and sat down with dems to have a meaningful discussion.
E.g., women crossing the border for the sole purpose of giving birth and automatic citizenship for the child. Or birth tourism.
Or cities giving sanctuary to criminals only because they're undocumented immigrants.
That's what drives me crazy about Trump. He defeats his own cause by being bombastic.
As far as Biden's position on immigration reform , Google 'Biden on immigration ' and you'll see nothing of any real substance comes up.
 
anonymoose said:
Agree with you about the wall. Zero chance of that happening ever. Dems were once logical about immigration but TDS seems to have caused some of them to lose their minds. And Trump is the cause for TDS with his stupid tweets and obnoxious personality.
Imagine if he had half the wit and charm of a Reagan (I'd settle for a tenth) and sat down with dems to have a meaningful discussion.
E.g., women crossing the border for the sole purpose of giving birth and automatic citizenship for the child. Or birth tourism.
Or cities giving sanctuary to criminals only because they're undocumented immigrants.
That's what drives me crazy about Trump. He defeats his own cause by being bombastic.
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We mostly agree again. I think there has been an overreaction to Trump is some corners of the Democratic party. I don't think that's the mainstream Democratic view. Personally, I think the 'Gang of Eight' bill was a better reflection of where Democrats are with respect to immigration, and I think it aligns with the viewpoint of most Americans. More money spent on 'soft' border protection (as opposed to just 'the wall'), protections for Dreamers, limits on legal immigration, etc. I would have supported that bill, but in the end, the more radical right views on immigration killed any chance that it would pass the House. Something similar was proposed to Trump by a bipartisan group, but...... Stephen Miller. That's a shame. Overall though, I don't think the party should be painted with the same brush as some of these more radical positions on the left.
 
Bullshit thread, The Dems never had Cherubs support, He is using the same pattern on threads over and over. He is a mindless righty thinks he is clever. Wrong. Try a new tack.
 
CherubRam said:
The Democrats had my support when they condemned the police killing of George Floyd.

The Democrats lost my support when they allowed the looting and firebombing of our cities.

And now the Democrats condemn the president for wanting to send troops to protect our cities and people.
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dems have abandoned any defense of actual civil rights and social order to assist the ccp in their coups on america, so have multinational corporations.

we're on our own.

I myself, am ready to die.
 
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