The evolution of complex life

A slight disagreement; I believe life itself is exceedingly rare, given the results, but believe that where life exists it will eventually become intelligent.

Interstellar flight using conventional means would, indeed, take a long time. With renewable energy, mining the asteroids and building life ships that would take a century or two to reach another solar system are a possibility.

As Earth's own history proves; there will always be those who want to go and those who'd rather stay. :)

I would like to find living or fossil evidence of indigenous microbial life on Mars, Europa, Titan, Enceladus before I fully accept the axiom that life is an inevitable consequence of chemistry, and I would like SETI to intercept an artificial signal before I accept the assumption that intelligence is an inevitable consequence of life.
 
I would like to find living or fossil evidence of indigenous microbial life on Mars, Europa, Titan, Enceladus before I fully accept the axiom that life is an inevitable consequence of chemistry, and I would like SETI to intercept an artificial signal before I accept the assumption that intelligence is an inevitable consequence of life.

In the case of Mars, life may have began but died as the planet died. Same for Venus before it's runaway Greenhouse Effect killed it.

If life is found in the oceans of Europa, it may be a few billion years for it to evolve intelligence....such as when the Sun becomes a red giant.

The Red Queen Hypothesis is about predator and prey. Animals eat and evolve in different ways to maximize their consumption. Predators are often smarter than prey. Hawks are smart, pigeons are stupid. Lions, Tigers and Bears are smart. To survive, prey has to become smarter. Predators have to either become smarter or starve. At some point, that intelligence will become sentient, self-aware, as it did in humans.

IMO, intelligence is the ultimate expression of biological evolution.
 
True. Most people have Dutch on ignore.

I truly believe that you should join a Taekwondo or boxing class, Ms. BP. Boxing may be cheaper and even free if at a Catholic Church or YMCA/YWCA.

When people have the confidence that they can defend themselves, they are no longer constantly being defensive.
 
In the case of Mars, life may have began but died as the planet died. Same for Venus before it's runaway Greenhouse Effect killed it.

If life is found in the oceans of Europa, it may be a few billion years for it to evolve intelligence....such as when the Sun becomes a red giant.

The Red Queen Hypothesis is about predator and prey. Animals eat and evolve in different ways to maximize their consumption. Predators are often smarter than prey. Hawks are smart, pigeons are stupid. Lions, Tigers and Bears are smart. To survive, prey has to become smarter. Predators have to either become smarter or starve. At some point, that intelligence will become sentient, self-aware, as it did in humans.

IMO, intelligence is the ultimate expression of biological evolution.

S4XWMLG.jpg
 
In the case of Mars, life may have began but died as the planet died. Same for Venus before it's runaway Greenhouse Effect killed it.

If life is found in the oceans of Europa, it may be a few billion years for it to evolve intelligence....such as when the Sun becomes a red giant.

The Red Queen Hypothesis is about predator and prey. Animals eat and evolve in different ways to maximize their consumption. Predators are often smarter than prey. Hawks are smart, pigeons are stupid. Lions, Tigers and Bears are smart. To survive, prey has to become smarter. Predators have to either become smarter or starve. At some point, that intelligence will become sentient, self-aware, as it did in humans.

IMO, intelligence is the ultimate expression of biological evolution.
Fair enough

But I think Insects are by far the most successful order of species this planet has ever seen. Hands down. Some genuses will be evolutionarily adapted to survive asteroid strikes and nuclear wars.

If evolution to ever higher orders of abstract intelligence is an inevitable consequence of life, I would expect the eventual evolutionary emergence of a super race of hyper intelligent and quasi-omniscient life to arise.

On the other hand, I I think it is at least equally likely that homo sapiens are a one-off in the evolutionary chain, and may never be replicated or outdone after we kill ourselves off or go extinct
 
Fair enough

But I think Insects are by far the most successful order of species this planet has ever seen. Hands down. Some genuses will be evolutionarily adapted to survive asteroid strikes and nuclear wars.

If evolution to ever higher orders of abstract intelligence is an inevitable consequence of life, I would expect the eventual evolutionary emergence of a super race of hyper intelligent and quasi-omniscient life to arise.

On the other hand, I I think it is at least equally likely that homo sapiens are a one-off in the evolutionary chain, and may never be replicated or outdone after we kill ourselves off or go extinct

Agreed on insects. They'll keep life going, but seem to have limited capacity for evolving into an intelligent species....although a hive mentality might have some advantages.

So far humans are the first Earth species known to have the ability to control our environment...and destroy all other species in the process. LOL

Had an impact event not taken out the dinosaurs, they might have evolved smarter versions. I don't see anything special about the simian line, except opposable thumbs and bipedalism.

The largest and oldest organism known on Earth is the 4 square mile Armillaria ostoyae. Could something this big ever develop intellience? IDK. Even if it did, what could it do?...except kill more trees? LOL

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/
Next time you purchase white button mushrooms at the grocery store, just remember, they may be cute and bite-size but they have a relative out west that occupies some 2,384 acres (965 hectares) of soil in Oregon's Blue Mountains. Put another way, this humongous fungus would encompass 1,665 football fields, or nearly four square miles (10 square kilometers) of turf.

The discovery of this giant Armillaria ostoyae in 1998 heralded a new record holder for the title of the world's largest known organism, believed by most to be the 110-foot- (33.5-meter-) long, 200-ton blue whale. Based on its current growth rate, the fungus is estimated to be 2,400 years old but could be as ancient as 8,650 years, which would earn it a place among the oldest living organisms as well.

A team of forestry scientists discovered the giant after setting out to map the population of this pathogenic fungus in eastern Oregon. The team paired fungal samples in petri dishes to see if they fused (see photo below), a sign that they were from the same genetic individual, and used DNA fingerprinting to determine where one individual fungus ended.

This one, A. ostoyae, causes Armillaria root disease, which kills swaths of conifers in many parts of the U.S. and Canada. The fungus primarily grows along tree roots via hyphae, fine filaments that mat together and excrete digestive enzymes. But Armillaria has the unique ability to extend rhizomorphs, flat shoestringlike structures, that bridge gaps between food sources and expand the fungus's sweeping perimeter ever more.

A combination of good genes and a stable environment has allowed this particularly ginormous fungus to continue its creeping existence over the past millennia. "These are very strange organisms to our anthropocentric way of thinking," says biochemist Myron Smith of Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario. An Armillaria individual consists of a network of hyphae, he explains. "Collectively, this network is called the mycelium and is of an indefinite shape and size."...
 
Perry PhD claims to have over 20 years of education and about the same of experience under his belt. Is anyone besides me seeing something lacking in his behavior and demeanor?

Can anyone think of the phrase "nation's leading scientist" and "Perry" existing in the same sentence?

And YOU claim to have had statistics (but don't know core concept as I showed earlier), and you claim to have a Bachelors in Psychology but you never speak like a psychologist.

Lying sack of shit didn't count on finding someone who actually could see through his bullshit lies.
 
I'm outta here. This thread has gone south with Doc Douchebag deciding he cannot help but troll me.

Sorry.
YET ANOTHER LIE. Why do you make shit up like that? WHERE did I claim over 20 years of education?

WHY DO YOU LIE NONSTOP? I mean, about yourself and others. It's weird.

YOU JUST LIKE TO LIE?

My apologies, Perry. I confused you with a real doctor: 12+4+4=20 years

My mistake and I assure you I'll never make that mistake again with you. :)

BTW, are you a woman? First you say you're out of here, virtually stomping off while calling me names. Then you troll the thread with insulting graphics. Trolling is something you've often falsely accused others of doing, when, in fact, you're the biggest troll on this thread. Seconded only by a bipolar pothead. Your behavior strikes me as very odd....but I admit that foreign men can sometimes look like a strong American woman.
 
Agreed on insects. They'll keep life going, but seem to have limited capacity for evolving into an intelligent species....although a hive mentality might have some advantages.

So far humans are the first Earth species known to have the ability to control our environment...and destroy all other species in the process. LOL

Had an impact event not taken out the dinosaurs, they might have evolved smarter versions. I don't see anything special about the simian line, except opposable thumbs and bipedalism.

The largest and oldest organism known on Earth is the 4 square mile Armillaria ostoyae. Could something this big ever develop intellience? IDK. Even if it did, what could it do?...except kill more trees? LOL

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/

Nice.

If the goal of evolution is the transmission of genetic information to successive generations, I don't see human cognition necessarily being superior to the arthropod. Insects have been around for ~400 million years, they outlived the dinosaurs, they lived through every mass extinction event, and they will probably outlast mammals and primates. I've heard of bugs that thrive in polluted water.
 
Nice.

If the goal of evolution is the transmission of genetic information to successive generations, I don't see human cognition necessarily being superior to the arthropod.

Insects have been around for ~400 million years, they outlived the dinosaurs, they lived through every mass extinction event, and they will probably outlast mammals and primates. I've heard of bugs that thrive in polluted water.
Thanks.

Agreed. If, however, the only goal was to pass on genetic information, why evolve above a bacterium or amoeba?

A part of the evolutionary drive seeking to pass along genes is survival to do so. This gets into the food chain thing again and the resulting Red Queen Hypothesis.

While germs and bugs are hardy and likely to survive most calamities that have befallen the Earth*, they seem to have a limited capacity to evolve intelligence. One thought is the hive mentality, but how many bugs would it take to equal a human brain?


*Six Extinction Events if you count the current one.
 
Thanks.

Agreed. If, however, the only goal was to pass on genetic information, why evolve above a bacterium or amoeba?

A part of the evolutionary drive seeking to pass along genes is survival to do so. This gets into the food chain thing again and the resulting Red Queen Hypothesis.

While germs and bugs are hardy and likely to survive most calamities that have befallen the Earth*, they seem to have a limited capacity to evolve intelligence. One thought is the hive mentality, but how many bugs would it take to equal a human brain?


*Six Extinction Events if you count the current one.

LOLOLOL.
2TPlF2F.jpg
 
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Thanks.

Agreed. If, however, the only goal was to pass on genetic information, why evolve above a bacterium or amoeba?

A part of the evolutionary drive seeking to pass along genes is survival to do so. This gets into the food chain thing again and the resulting Red Queen Hypothesis.

While germs and bugs are hardy and likely to survive most calamities that have befallen the Earth*, they seem to have a limited capacity to evolve intelligence. One thought is the hive mentality, but how many bugs would it take to equal a human brain?


*Six Extinction Events if you count the current one.

I assume complex multicellular organisms evolved because there are advantages to having sensory perception, exoskeletons, self-mobility, and speed.

The curious thing about complex multicellular animals is they exploded on the evolutionary scene in just about a period of 30 million years, after three billion years of nothing but one celled microbes occupying the planet
 
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