The evolution of complex life

[ThatOwlWoman]

The evidence seems to suggest we're about the same as our ancestors 30,000 years ago. The difference is tech, which drives our culture.

Take away the tech and we revert to our base form. About the same as Native Americans before the Euros or Northern Europe before the Romans.

True. I guess one way to think of intelligence is to picture convincing an African bush tribal member to allow him/herself to be dropped off in New York City with no money or even ability to be understood by others. How would they fare?

How would an urban American New Yorker fare if we reversed the situation and dropped him/her off in the bush with no tools, weapons, or knowledge of the region? Which would get mugged first, either by a human or an animal? Who would survive the longest?

Or would someone make a movie out of the African-in-NYC, ala Crocodile Dundee? lol

 

[Dutch Uncle]

One of those doormats that says "Go the fuck away"? lol

Hey! That's my doormat!*

Smart people know enough to not go to homes just to start fights.


*actually, it's a sign next to the doorway

 

[Cypress]

The evidence seems to suggest we're about the same as our ancestors 30,000 years ago..

That might be one legitimate scientific opinion, but I don't think there is broadly held scientific consensus on that.

How have we changed since our species first appeared?

We have undergone change since our species first evolved. Some changes were universal whereas others were more regional in effect. The changes apparent in worldwide populations include a decrease in both overall body size and brain size as well as a reduction in jaw and tooth proportions. Regional populations have also evolved different physical and genetic characteristics in response to varying climates and lifestyles.

https://australian.museum/learn/sci...-we-changed-since-our-species-first-appeared/

 

[Cypress]

Short answer: we killed off the competition just as assuredly as we did the buffalo and the dodo bird.

It's a good hypothesis, but there might be alternative hypotheses.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

True. I guess one way to think of intelligence is to picture convincing an African bush tribal member to allow him/herself to be dropped off in New York City with no money or even ability to be understood by others. How would they fare?

How would an urban American New Yorker fare if we reversed the situation and dropped him/her off in the bush with no tools, weapons, or knowledge of the region? Which would get mugged first, either by a human or an animal? Who would survive the longest?

Or would someone make a movie out of the African-in-NYC, ala Crocodile Dundee? lol

There's a difference between intelligence and culture. Geneticists have proved that the term "race" is worthless. The main differences between human beings are their cultures as you exemplified.

Another example is to take an African bush baby and raise them in a middle-class American family and take a New York baby and raise them in an African tribal culture. Is there any doubt that the baby would grow to become a member of the culture in which they were raised?

Cynthia Ann Parker, the true life basis for the movie "The Searchers", is one example of young being raised in a different culture. Taken by the Comanches at age nine, she fully assimilated and refused all attempts to return her to Euro-American society.

https://www.humanitiestexas.org/programs/tx-originals/list/cynthia-ann-parker

Cynthia Ann Parker
ca. 1827–1871

Cynthia Ann Parker is the most famous Indian captive in American history.

She was born in Illinois, around 1827. In 1833, her family moved to Texas and built Fort Parker in what is now Limestone County, east of Waco. Comanche warriors attacked the fort in 1836 and took young Cynthia Ann captive.

Parker spent the next twenty-four years with the Indians, eventually marrying the warrior Peta Nocona, with whom she had two sons and a daughter. White traders and soldiers spotted Parker several times during these years, but she refused to abandon her Comanche family. In 1860, however, Texas Rangers and federal soldiers abducted her, with her infant daughter, in an attack on a Comanche encampment in north Texas.

Parker was reunited with the white family she no longer remembered. Sadly, she struggled to readjust. A number of times she tried to escape with her daughter and return to the Comanche and her two sons.

Parker died in 1871 and was buried in Anderson County in East Texas. Her son Quanah—who became the most important Comanche leader of his day—later had her reinterred near his home in Oklahoma. In 1957, the federal government relocated her remains, along with those of Quanah and some seven hundred other Comanches, to the cemetery at Fort Sill.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

There's a difference between intelligence and culture. Geneticists have proved that the term "race" is worthless. The main differences between human beings are their cultures as you exemplified.

Another example is to take an African bush baby and raise them in a middle-class American family and take a New York baby and raise them in an African tribal culture. Is there any doubt that the baby would grow to become a member of the culture in which they were raised?

Cynthia Ann Parker, the true life basis for the movie "The Searchers", is one example of young being raised in a different culture. Taken by the Comanches at age nine, she fully assimilated and refused all attempts to return her to Euro-American society.

https://www.humanitiestexas.org/programs/tx-originals/list/cynthia-ann-parker

I agree. That illustrates my point on intelligence. We techie culture ppl tend to think of aboriginals as unsophisticated, child-like, and not as bright as us. We're wrong. We'd look pretty dumb fumbling around in the bush, unable to even locate water, eh?

I feel sorry for that lady in your story. Why couldn't they just leave her alone?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That might be one legitimate scientific opinion, but I don't think there is broadly held scientific consensus on that.

There are regional differences. Consider the north rim and south rim squirrels. Same squirrel ancestors divided by a geographical boundary and multiple generations. Another is sickle cell anemia; which began as a genetic defense mechanism for those living in malaria stricken areas but not so good for those living in Detroit. https://www.sparksicklecellchange.com/sickle-cell-genetics/history

The modern world is more blended with dominate traits overtaking recessive traits. Should mankind ever reach the stars, is there any doubt that regional differences will crop up there too? Especially for wildly different conditions of gravity or O2 levels?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

It's a good hypothesis, but there might be alternative hypotheses.

Some others are low birth rate, disease, starvation as the climate warmed.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I agree. That illustrates my point on intelligence. We techie culture ppl tend to think of aboriginals as unsophisticated, child-like, and not as bright as us. We're wrong. We'd look pretty dumb fumbling around in the bush, unable to even locate water, eh?

I feel sorry for that lady in your story. Why couldn't they just leave her alone?

People who think they are smarter because they were raised in a more sophisticated culture are why we should really consider the Russian Roulette TikTok challenge.

Re Cynthia Ann, because people were a lot less sophisticated in those days.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It's a good hypothesis, but there might be alternative hypotheses.

Agreed, but mankind has a history of killing off the competition, including other humans. We are living in the Sixth Mass Extinction, and it appears to be driven by mankind.

At this rate, Soylent Green may become more fact than fiction. LOL

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/what-is-the-sixth-mass-extinction-and-what-can-we-do-about-it
What is the sixth mass extinction and what can we do about it?

What’s causing the sixth mass extinction?
Unlike previous extinction events caused by natural phenomena, the sixth mass extinction is driven by human activity, primarily (though not limited to) the unsustainable use of land, water and energy use, and climate change. Currently, 40% of all land has been converted for food production. Agriculture is also responsible for 90% of global deforestation and accounts for 70% of the planet’s freshwater use, devastating the species that inhabit those places by significantly altering their habitats. It’s evident that where and how food is produced is one of the biggest human-caused threats to species extinction and our ecosystems. To make matters worse, unsustainable food production and consumption are significant contributors to greenhouse gas emissions that are causing atmospheric temperatures to rise, wreaking havoc across the globe. The climate crisis is causing everything from severe droughts to more frequent and intense storms. It also exacerbates the challenges associated with food production that stress species, while creating conditions that make their habitats inhospitable. Increased droughts and floods have made it more difficult to maintain crops and produce sufficient food in some regions. The intertwined relationships among the food system, climate change, and biodiversity loss are placing immense pressure on our planet.

 

[Cypress]

I agree. That illustrates my point on intelligence. We techie culture ppl tend to think of aboriginals as unsophisticated, child-like, and not as bright as us. We're wrong. We'd look pretty dumb fumbling around in the bush, unable to even locate water, eh?

I feel sorry for that lady in your story. Why couldn't they just leave her alone?

They had to have very active brains to survive.

Paleolithic human were probably far more in tune with their environment, and had tool and weapon making skills that are virtually beyond us.

Making a good Clovis point is difficult. You have to know the right kind of rocks, and have the skill to fracture the rock in a specific way. Modern humans have great difficulty making a good Clovis point.

Paleolithic people probably had navigational skills, tracking skills, boat building skills, and could read stars, wind, and water in ways we have completely forgotten.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

People who think they are smarter because they were raised in a more sophisticated culture are why we should really consider the Russian Roulette TikTok challenge.

I don't think telling people to kill themselves is necessarily a sign that we as a species have actually increased our intelligence.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Another example is to take an African bush baby and raise them in a middle-class American family and take a New York baby and raise them in an African tribal culture. Is there any doubt that the baby would grow to become a member of the culture in which they were raised?
]

I think that the bushbaby will still stand out from the society they were raised in. Given that they are small nocturnal primates and not hominids.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

It's a good hypothesis, but there might be alternative hypotheses.

We probably did kill of a lot of other early hominids. But we were clearly not above having sex with them given that Neanderthal DNA is still in us.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't think telling people to kill themselves is necessarily a sign that we as a species have actually increased our intelligence.

We haven't. Mankind is about the same as 30,000 years ago mentally and about 300,000 years ago anatomically. That's the blink of an eye in terms life on Earth. Less than .5% of the time since the day of the dinosaurs ended.

Even more interesting to me is the fact that human history only goes back 6000 years, about 2% of the time homo sapiens have been around. This means that 98% of our history has been living uncivilized.

https://www.history.com/news/first-earliest-human-civilizations
The 6 Earliest Human Civilizations
Architecture, agriculture, art and more first blossomed in these cultures.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/how-an-asteroid-caused-extinction-of-dinosaurs.html
Sixty-six million years ago, dinosaurs had the ultimate bad day. With a devastating asteroid impact, a reign that had lasted 180 million years was abruptly ended.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I think that the bushbaby will still stand out from the society they were raised in. Given that they are small nocturnal primates and not hominids.

We're talking about people, not animals.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

We're talking about people, not animals.

Oh, sorry. But bushbabies are animals. They're also called Galagos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galago

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They had to have very active brains to survive.

Paleolithic human were probably far more in tune with their environment, and had tool and weapon making skills that are virtually beyond us.

Making a good Clovis point is difficult. You have to know the right kind of rocks, and have the skill to fracture the rock in a specific way. Modern humans have great difficulty making a good Clovis point.

Paleolithic people probably had navigational skills, tracking skills, boat building skills, and could read stars, wind, and water in ways we have completely forgotten.

Agreed. Lot of trial and error....which explains why mankind is about 300,000 years old but Clovis points about 14,000.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Oh, sorry. But bushbabies are animals. They're also called Galagos.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galago

Awesome. Thank you for your input.

That said, the conversation was about transposing babies from NYC and an African village.

 

[Cancel 1 2023]

Awesome. Thank you for your input.

That said, the conversation was about transposing babies from NYC and an African village.

Again, apologies. The post wasn't clear because it said bush baby. That was what tripped me up.