The Godless Left

Cypress said:
Read all of what I wrote.
Confucianism did exist in the Mediterranean world, aka the source of our western heritage. Nobody in Europe heard of Buddha until the 12th century.

Murder, rape, and stealing has probably been frowned upon since the Epic of Gilgamesh was written.

But moral excellence and being a decent human being involves more than just not murdering or raping.

And that is where all people from the western tradition have been inculcated with Judeo Christian values, even when only through passive osmosis. The same can be said of the eight fold noble path in the Asian tradition.
Click to expand...


You are proselytizing. You like being a Christian. So what.
 
Cypress said:
Read all of what I wrote.

Confucianism did not exist in the Mediterranean world, aka the source of our western heritage. Nobody in Europe heard of Buddha until the 12th century at best.

Murder, rape, and stealing has probably been frowned upon since the Epic of Gilgamesh was written.

But moral excellence and being a decent human being involves more than just not murdering or raping.

And that is where all people from the western tradition have been inculcated with Judeo Christian values, even when only through passive osmosis. The same can be said of the eight fold noble path and the Annalects for people from Asian tradition.
Click to expand...

Ok, fair enough, I saw where you limited it to the Mediterranean (not sure why you made that distinction, but okay).

That being said, there's no reason to believe the golden rule didn't exist in western societies long before the New Testament. Morality evolved, just like apes, and has descended from familial loyalty, to tribal loyalty, to civic loyalty.

It wasn't received wisdom, it was lived experience and trial and error that led to the golden rule.
 
Jerome said:
Ok, fair enough, I saw where you limited it to the Mediterranean (not sure why you made that distinction, but okay).

That being said, there's no reason to believe the golden rule didn't exist in western societies long before the New Testament. Morality evolved, just like apes, and has descended from familial loyalty, to tribal loyalty, to civic loyalty.

It wasn't received wisdom, it was lived experience and trial and error that led to the golden rule.
Click to expand...

I think something fairly similar to the golden rule and universal love existed in Vendic, Confucian, Zoroastrian societies.

But those have nothing to do with the Europe of antiquity and the middle ages. They were unknown west of the Danube River. Our cultural milieu generally comes from Europe.

That is why I made the point that our western perceptions of moral excellence owes something to our two thousand year flirtation with Judeo-Christian values.

And more broadly, the ethical traditions of the world owe a debt to the theistic and spritual traditions associated with Brahmanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, etc. Human concepts of moral excellence grew out of our collective theistic traditions -- even if we only acquired them through osmosis and are currently non-believers
 
Cypress said:
I have concluded that almost everyone who has grown up is a western country is to some degree a product of a two thousand year history of our religious traditions...

Nearly everyone in the west, including atheists, have been inculcated by Judeo-Christian ethical teachings - even if only by osmosis.

The Golden Rule, universal love, and spiritual equality were truly radical ethical teachings established in the New Testament. Those did not exist in the pre-New Testament and pre-Koranic pagan religious traditions of the Mediterranean and Near Eastern worlds.

For people of Asian decent, I believe they were inculcated with fairly similar ethical teachings via Buddhism and Confucianism. Even if their faith has long since lapsed.
Click to expand...

Mist atheists were steeped in religion just like you. They just made a wiser decision when they reached the age of reason.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
how about people who don't believe in a deity and have nothing to keep them from murdering or raping?.......
Click to expand...

My point is that some of you fruitcakes need belief in a deity to stop you from such acts, and that's frightening, because without that belief, you might do it. It says a lot that you that you think people need fear off punishment to not rape or murder.
 
Jerome said:
Ok, fair enough, I saw where you limited it to the Mediterranean (not sure why you made that distinction, but okay).

That being said, there's no reason to believe the golden rule didn't exist in western societies long before the New Testament. Morality evolved, just like apes, and has descended from familial loyalty, to tribal loyalty, to civic loyalty.

It wasn't received wisdom, it was lived experience and trial and error that led to the golden rule.
Click to expand...

Why is murder wrong? Because it could happen to you. No one had to invent the golden rule.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
My point is that some of you fruitcakes need belief in a deity to stop you from such acts, and that's frightening, because without that belief, you might do it. It says a lot that you that you think people need fear off punishment to not rape or murder.
Click to expand...

It says a lot that you think fear has anything to do with believing.
 
Michael_Panetta said:
You believe in sola scriptura. Of course, this is logically absurd when you realize that Christians existed before the NT was even written.
Click to expand...

Since, as you claim, Christians existed, there had to be a never changing Christ. WHEN it was written is irrelevant. Lots of books on all sorts of topics weren't written until many years after the topic about which it was written occurred.

Are you claiming books promoting evolution were written when the supposed big bang took place?
 
BidenPresident said:
Fear of God. Fear of death. Fear of hell.
Click to expand...

An idiot that thinks fear of God means running around covering your head so lightning bolts don't hit you.

An idiot that thinks not wanting to die means being afraid to die.

A idiot that thinks not wanting to live eternity separated from God is a result of being scared.
 
CFM said:
An idiot that thinks fear of God means running around covering your head so lightning bolts don't hit you.

An idiot that thinks not wanting to die means being afraid to die.

A idiot that thinks not wanting to live eternity separated from God is a result of being scared.
Click to expand...


Okay, you are an idiot!
 
Cypress said:
I think something fairly similar to the golden rule and universal love existed in Vendic, Confucian, Zoroastrian societies.

But those have nothing to do with the Europe of antiquity and the middle ages. They were unknown west of the Danube River. Our cultural milieu generally comes from Europe.

That is why I made the point that our western perceptions of moral excellence owes something to our two thousand year flirtation with Judeo-Christian values.

And more broadly, the ethical traditions of the world owe a debt to the theistic and spritual traditions associated with Brahmanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, etc. Human concepts of moral excellence grew out of our collective theistic traditions -- even if we only acquired them through osmosis and are currently non-believers
Click to expand...

West of the Danube?
What was different to the East of the Danube?
 
BidenPresident said:
Why is murder wrong? Because it could happen to you. No one had to invent the golden rule.
Click to expand...

When people started living in large groups like cities and towns, it was necessary to establish rules. Rules were in place long before Christianity was involved. The Babylonians had a legal code 2 centuries before Christ supposedly existed.
 
Jerome said:
Unrelated, but do you by chance have linoleum and wood-paneled walls in your single-wide?
Click to expand...

I absolutely love your avatar. Brilliant.
No, I used to walk the streets of 5th and Main in downtown la and would sleep in abandoned buildings I was 16.

But then I moved to Hawaii slept on the beach.

Today I live in a million dollar home on Oahu that I bought after starting a recession proof business that is operating at full capacity today.

No hard feelings brother. If we don’t allow ourselves to get weak and attack each other’s positions we are above all men most miserable and without hope in America.

I have no anger or hate when posting my bs on the threads here.

Blessings
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top