The KKK is to Christianity what AlQueda is to Islam.

Cypress said:
Damo, I see the problem; may I suggest a class at your local community college on world religions?

With two billion christians on the planet, not everybody practices "christianity" as we commonly know it from the american methodist church, or american penecostal church.

Though much of latin american, the carribean, and africa, local traditions and mythologies have been incorporated into their christian faith. Including idolatry and animism. Ever heard of the santeria catholicism practied by many latin american catholics? Just like american values and traditions have been incorporated into evangelical american christian churches.

there's probably a community college nearby you, that offers a world religion class where you could inform yourself.

:cool:
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Nice sarcasm... However, I see the problem...

You can take a class on religion at one of those self-same colleges... Amazingly other religions, such as Islam itself, stem from another religion (Judaism and Christianity in this case) and are considered a third religion. I just extend it to this one as well....

Had this group, like al Qaeda with the Quran, used solely the Bible to justify their actions I would agree with you 100%, however I only agree at a smaller percentage because of the whole two religions base that this new religion is based on.

Like those groups that use the Bible as their sole reason to bomb clinics or to justify racism, I would say that they are like al Qaeda. In fact, I have in this very thread!

It is the whole different base to the religion that causes me pause and makes me reflect on such things as Islam and how they first began with stories that were based in both Judaism and Christianity with some local beliefs mixed in and how it created a whole new religion that started small, like this dude's group, and grew... Hopefully this guy's group won't grow like Muslim did or Christianity did as it seems to take the worst of both of the religions and only the worst portions...
 
well, those a valid points damo.

I think americans get biased about what "christianity" is, based on our limited experiences with american churches. So we can't "imagine" christians committing terrorism.

Christianity, like islam, is not a monolithic relgion. Its is adapted and modified by local cultural traditions - just like al qaeda is evidently an outgrowth of the saudi wahhabist tradition: which is considered a weird and extremist cult by most muslim globally.

Like I've said previously, american christians and american muslims in modern times, are guilty of very little in the way of terrorism.
 
Al Qaeda aren't really akin to the KKK.

There is not really an AQ organisation to speak of anymore. There is just a loose collection of disaparate groups, some supporting of others, some not.

What they have in common is a shared message, the eviction of the crusaders from Muslim lands and the return of the Umma to the moral standards of the time of Mohammad.

If we kill OBL or Zawahiri now, it will have as little effect as our killing of Zarqawi... We aren't fighting people, we are fighting a message.

The casual, brutal racism of the KKK doesn't compare to the Muslim problem...
 
In some respects, I must disagree with you, Jarod. It would be more appropriate to say that extreme Christian Fundamentalists are to Christianity as Al Qaeda is to Islam. The KKK is extreme, however, any true Christain would argue that it does not share the principles of Christianity. There may be members of the KKK who are Christian but do not understand Christ. Regardless, there are fundamental Christians out there who are extreme but may have nothing to do with the KKK. It is these latter groups that are Christianities version of Al Qaeda.

Immie
 
No. The actual teachings of Islam demand violence to spread islam. Jihad is not a "perversion" of the faith. The faith itself demands theocracy. Politically Correct lies such as this will lead us all to ruin.
 
AssHatZombie said:
No. The actual teachings of Islam demand violence to spread islam. Jihad is not a "perversion" of the faith. The faith itself demands theocracy. Politically Correct lies such as this will lead us all to ruin.
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But AHZ, how do you know this...?

Have you read the Quaran or the Old Testament of the Bible, for that matter?

Are you certain Jihad, and this messed up thinking of terrorists does not come from the ''Hadiths'', (outside of the Quaran) which are (supposedly) religious writings connected to Islam?

Care
 
Cypress said:
and most of the world's 1 billion muslims, would say al qaedas tactics and philosophy aren't a truly "islamic". So what's the difference between terrorists who pervert the religion of islam, and terrorists who pervert christianity?


You can pretend that no where on the planet, are people who are committing terrorism and atrocities in the name of christian "values", or hindu "values", or buddist values - and that its all coming from muslim terrorists.

but, you'd be wrong.
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And "atheistic values" as well .... see the once proud USSR and Red China ....

But lets face it ... in todays world .... Islamic terrorism is the issue ... you can spew all your frickin pc new age pseudosocialscience blather all day long... in the end its Islamic terrorism that is the driving force of world disruptance...
 
Islamic extremism is certainly the biggest game in town....

I remain deeply troubled by those folks on here who, out of their ignorance and fear, would classify all muslims as our enemies. I have met thousands of them, and gotten to know hundreds and hundreds of them pretty well.... and not ONE of the ones I knew or met seemed to me like folks who would be anything other than shocked and saddened by what is being done in the name of their faith.
 
maineman said:
Islamic extremism is certainly the biggest game in town....

I remain deeply troubled by those folks on here who, out of their ignorance and fear, would classify all muslims as our enemies. I have met thousands of them, and gotten to know hundreds and hundreds of them pretty well.... and not ONE of the ones I knew or met seemed to me like folks who would be anything other than shocked and saddened by what is being done in the name of their faith.
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I feel what you are saying .. and when I use the term "Islamic terrorism" ..Im not pointing the finger towards all Muslims ... Im pointing the finger towards those who are using the faith to advance a World Theocracy in the name of their God by way of Terrorism ... as you said, and well put by the way... "it is the biggest terrorism game in town...."
 
klaatu said:
And "atheistic values" as well .... see the once proud USSR and Red China ....

But lets face it ... in todays world .... Islamic terrorism is the issue ... you can spew all your frickin pc new age pseudosocialscience blather all day long... in the end its Islamic terrorism that is the driving force of world disruptance...
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And "atheistic values" as well ...

Indeed. Political terrorism - independent of religion - has always been a huge probelm.


islamic terrorism is the issue ... you can spew all your frickin pc new age pseudosocialscience blather all day long... in the end its Islamic terrorism that is the driving force of world disruptance.

It is currently in the middleeast, and in western europe/united states.

But, lets not show our cultural bias. The US and Western Europe account for, what, 10% of the world's population? Most of the people on the planet live in Asia, where hindu terrorism, christian terrorism, buddist terrorism, and muslim terrorism are all huge problems.
 
Cypress said:
And "atheistic values" as well ...

Indeed. Political terrorism - independent of religion - has always been a huge probelm.


islamic terrorism is the issue ... you can spew all your frickin pc new age pseudosocialscience blather all day long... in the end its Islamic terrorism that is the driving force of world disruptance.

It is currently in the middleeast, and in western europe/united states.

But, lets not show our cultural bias. The US and Western Europe account for, what, 10% of the world's population? Most of the people on the planet live in Asia, where hindu terrorism, christian terrorism, buddist terrorism, and muslim terrorism are all huge problems.
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See how cultural bias, can cause us to assume muslim terrorism is the number one problem, from our western perspective? However, most of the people on the planet live in Asia. India has a greater population than the United states and western Europe combined. And the hindu Terrorist group, Tamil Tigers, is documented to have committed the MOST terrorist attacks of any terrorist group on the planet.:


"Tamil Tigers" LTEE (Hindu)
By Council of Foregin Relations

The Tamils are an ethnic group who live in southern India (mainly in the state of Tamil Nadu) and on Sri Lanka , an island of 19 million people off the southern tip of India . Tamils comprise about eighteen percent of the island’s population, and most live in northern and eastern areas. Their religion (most are Hindu) and Tamil language set them apart from the three-quarters of Sri Lankans who are Sinhalese—members of a largely Buddhist, Sinhala-speaking ethnic group.


The LTTE is notorious for its suicide bombings. Since the late 1980s, the group has conducted some 200 suicide bombings—far more than any other terrorist group. LTTE suicide bombers have attacked civilians on mass transit, at Buddhist shrines, and in office buildings. In October 1997, a suicide truck bomb killed eighteen people at the 39-story World Trade Centre in Colombo, Sri Lanka’s capital.

Beyond suicide bombings, the LTTE has used conventional bombs against political and civilian targets and has gunned down both Sri Lankan officials and civilians. LTTE fighters wear cyanide capsules around their necks, so they can commit suicide if they are captured.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9242/
 
All I'm saying is that muslim terrorism - al qaeda-type groups specifically - are the biggest problem for the west. I'm dubious however, about claims that it is "the biggest terrorist problem in the world". I suspect we're letting cultural bias affect that assertion. Even though we (Europe and United states) account for, what, 10% of the world's population, sometimes we assume if it happens here, that is must be "the most important problem in the world."

I don't have the breadth and depth of knowledge to speak for the WHOLE world. I suspect that people in many parts of asia, might consider hindu terrorism (like tamil tigers) the "biggest" problem in their part of the world. Tamil Tigers are documented to have commited more terrorist acts than any other group on planet. And lets face it, more people live in asia, than here or europe.

Likewise, in sub-saharan africa, I suspect most people are concerend about atrocities and terrorism from indigenous tribal groups who practice local animist religions, or from the christian Lords Resistance Army in central africa.
 
Care4all said:
But AHZ, how do you know this...?

Have you read the Quaran or the Old Testament of the Bible, for that matter?

Are you certain Jihad, and this messed up thinking of terrorists does not come from the ''Hadiths'', (outside of the Quaran) which are (supposedly) religious writings connected to Islam?

Care
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It is from the hadiths, but you're underplaying the value of the hadiths in the muslim world. Westerners also make this mistake with jews and their book of hate, the talmud. The talmud supercedes the torah.
 
The KKK is extreme, however, any true Christain would argue that it does not share the principles of Christianity. There may be members of the KKK who are Christian but do not understand Christ. Regardless, there are fundamental Christians out there who are extreme but may have nothing to do with the KKK.

The 'No True Scotsman' defence?
 
And "atheistic values" as well .... see the once proud USSR and Red China ....

Neither the USSR nor China used atheism to justify atrocities, rather the notion of collectivisation.
 
No. The actual teachings of Islam demand violence to spread islam.

The sword verses are balanced by other verses that advocate peaceful evangelicalism.

It is a manner of interpretation, just as the Christian texts are. It is as easy to justify a crusade using the bible as it is jihad using the quran or hadith.
 
AnyOldIron said:
The KKK is extreme, however, any true Christain would argue that it does not share the principles of Christianity. There may be members of the KKK who are Christian but do not understand Christ. Regardless, there are fundamental Christians out there who are extreme but may have nothing to do with the KKK.

The 'No True Scotsman' defence?
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And moderate Muslams would say the same thing about Islam.
 
THere are fundamentalist Muslams who have nuthing to do with Al Queda.

THere are Muslams who abhore violence.

The members of Al Queda do not understand Allah!
 
There is no real entity called AQ as a terrorist organisation anymore. The AQ hardcore have been scattered, killed or captured.

al Qaeda means more than just 'the base'. It means 'a vanguard' and 'a methodology' as well...

The vanguard has been decimated, it barely exists anymore. But the destruction of the vanguard is the easy part. Dealing with the methodology is by far the hard part.

We aren't fighting a terrorist organisation called al Qaeda anymore. We are dealing with a message, the message of jihad in defence of the Umma. We are fighting to prevent more Muslim minds being seduced into the message.

And we are currently losing badly...
 
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