In 2003, there were almost fistfights at work between conservatives who thought invading Iraq was an awesome idea, and liberals who thought invading was a dumbass idea.
The moon landing was faked
- Thread starter AProudLefty
- Start date
In 2003, there were almost fistfights at work between conservatives who thought invading Iraq was an awesome idea, and liberals who thought invading was a dumbass idea.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
Good grief.
In 2008, at my job, corporate had to come down hard on whoever was putting racist anti-Obama cartoons in the lunchroom. We all knew who it was -- the same vocal RWer who listened to Limbaugh and other RW talk radio hosts every day in her cube -- but no one could prove it. She was told, however, to listen with headphones so that the rest of us didn't have to hear it. She was racist but tried to hide it by being sickeningly nice to our black coworkers. My cube was next to hers. When a black nurse came by to ask her something, the RWer's accent would switch from standard Midwest to match that of the black nurse, who would then look at me, roll her eyes and wink. People aren't as easily fooled as some think. lol
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Disagreed. They embrace the idea of "righting past wrongs" and "putting the shoe on the other foot".
Yes, it's an advantage to be born rich. Euro-Americans are the majority of US citizens so, in a democracy where people vote out of self-interest, it's an advantage to be in the majority. This is why, IMO, it's important to hold up the Constitution's protection of individual rights...something the Left usually attacks.
It's not rocket science to understand that men and women are different physically and psychologically. Neither should be seen as a limitation, just a difference. The difference does explain why most women don't grow up wanting to become Marines attacking a foreign beach or fighter pilots. It also explains why most men don't want to be flight attendants or nurses. Regardless of majority desires, people should be allowed to pursue the dreams for which they are qualified...and that qualification is often gained through education.
By your own statement, you imply that it's a zero-sum game; that to "make things right" means you want to take away from "rich white male". I disagree with this just like I disagree with quotas.
I disagree with it because discrimination is wrong. I disagree with it because it's not a zero-sum game. There's often a synergistic effect to people working together rather than against one another. The only people who gain from Americans competing against one another are those who set up the competition.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/z/zero-sumgame.asp
Zero-sum is a situation, often cited in game theory, in which one person’s gain is equivalent to another’s loss, so the net change in wealth or benefit is zero. A zero-sum game may have as few as two players or as many as millions of participants....
KEY TAKEAWAYS
- A zero-sum game is a situation where, if one party loses, the other party wins, and the net change in wealth is zero.
- Zero-sum games can include just two players or millions of participants.
- In financial markets, futures and options are considered zero-sum games because the contracts represent agreements between two parties and, if one investor loses, then the wealth is transferred to another investor.
- Most transactions are non-zero-sum games because the end result can be beneficial to both parties.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
Well of course political discussions at work are frowned upon but I still struggle to understand why when the condition of all our lives depend on it. I guess it is because it gets some people so mad they can't work. And it causes people to have hatred for others. Personal issues affect productivity.
But at the same time, workers are Americans and we have to have a solid country to have a secure working environment. Some things such as adequate vacation time do not directly contribute to productivity but they do enhance productivity in the long run by taking care of setting the proper conditions for productivity.
By making political discussions a no-no at work We are leaving important business undone, leaving ourselves open to a different kind of stress.
Perhaps like vacation a certain amount of political discussion should be required at work. Get things out into the open and show people that they can work very well with others who believe differently.
Well of course political discussions at work are frowned upon but I still struggle to understand why when the condition of all our lives depend on it. I guess it is because it gets some people so mad they can't work. And it causes people to have hatred for others. Personal issues affect productivity.
But at the same time, workers are Americans and we have to have a solid country to have a secure working environment. Some things such as adequate vacation time do not directly contribute to productivity but they do enhance productivity in the long run by taking care of setting the proper conditions for productivity.
By making political discussions a no-no at work We are leaving important business undone, leaving ourselves open to a different kind of stress.
Perhaps like vacation a certain amount of political discussion should be required at work. Get things out into the open and show people that they can work very well with others who believe differently.
ThatOwlWoman
Leftist Vermin
We work better with each other when we don't know what their political positions are, or their religion, or other personal matters. I know that this is true from personal experience.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch,
No, the left does not attack individual rights. That is right wing propaganda. You never hear anybody on the left saying they are against individual rights.
That is a misperception. Zero-sum is very similar to win/lose philosophy. I am totally into win/win philosophy. A deal which benefits some more than others does not have to cause a hurt or loss for others. It is possible for a deal or a concept to benefit both or all.
Government assistance programs directly benefit the recipients, but they also benefit non-recipients by making America greater, making the country more prosperous and raising overall satisfaction with life. A country with happy satisfied people is better off than one in which a portion of the country feels shafted.
A country with disgruntled people who can't prosper is a country that is bound to have a big crime problem. And America has a huge crime problem, as indicated by the number of people in lock-down. The answer to a big crime problem does not like in dealing with crime. It lies in attacking the conditions which result in crime.
Republicans have always gotten this wrong. It's like they want to suppress blacks and poor people; and then they are, like, mystified when people with nothing commit crimes to try to get the things they can't otherwise, or simply out of frustration because their lives are no fun.
No, the left does not attack individual rights. That is right wing propaganda. You never hear anybody on the left saying they are against individual rights.
That is a misperception. Zero-sum is very similar to win/lose philosophy. I am totally into win/win philosophy. A deal which benefits some more than others does not have to cause a hurt or loss for others. It is possible for a deal or a concept to benefit both or all.
Government assistance programs directly benefit the recipients, but they also benefit non-recipients by making America greater, making the country more prosperous and raising overall satisfaction with life. A country with happy satisfied people is better off than one in which a portion of the country feels shafted.
A country with disgruntled people who can't prosper is a country that is bound to have a big crime problem. And America has a huge crime problem, as indicated by the number of people in lock-down. The answer to a big crime problem does not like in dealing with crime. It lies in attacking the conditions which result in crime.
Republicans have always gotten this wrong. It's like they want to suppress blacks and poor people; and then they are, like, mystified when people with nothing commit crimes to try to get the things they can't otherwise, or simply out of frustration because their lives are no fun.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello ThatOwlWoman,
Up to a point. but if we could get past the hang-up, our working bonds would be greater.
We would have to truly embrace the US Constitution to do that. Particularly the preamble and the 1st Amendment.
Up to a point. but if we could get past the hang-up, our working bonds would be greater.
We would have to truly embrace the US Constitution to do that. Particularly the preamble and the 1st Amendment.
Litmus
Verified User
you should be anti-censorship if you really believe the constitution.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Translation: You're an idiot and too stupid to realize you are babbling RW propaganda.
Disagreed.
Any party which seeks to dictate moral behavior to Americans is attacking individual rights.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch Uncle,
I often hear this belief from the right that the left wants to control their life. I don't know where that comes from. Does the left tell people how to dress? What job to take? When to have breakfast? Who to marry?
The left is all like: 'Live and let live. Let's all share this great country and help the needy. Let's have universal health care, day care, free education. Protect the environment."
The right is all like: "No, you can't be queer. No, you can't change sex. No, you can't marry the same sex. No, you can't smoke marijuana. No, you can't get an abortion. No, we are not going to help you escape poverty - it's you're own damn fault. And screw the environment. It's ours to destroy."
Anyone interested in living in a vibrant free society would logically choose to vote with the left.
Anybody who is hateful and selfish, in denial of valid election outcomes - vote with the right.
Good people vote with the liberals!
I often hear this belief from the right that the left wants to control their life. I don't know where that comes from. Does the left tell people how to dress? What job to take? When to have breakfast? Who to marry?
The left is all like: 'Live and let live. Let's all share this great country and help the needy. Let's have universal health care, day care, free education. Protect the environment."
The right is all like: "No, you can't be queer. No, you can't change sex. No, you can't marry the same sex. No, you can't smoke marijuana. No, you can't get an abortion. No, we are not going to help you escape poverty - it's you're own damn fault. And screw the environment. It's ours to destroy."
Anyone interested in living in a vibrant free society would logically choose to vote with the left.
Anybody who is hateful and selfish, in denial of valid election outcomes - vote with the right.
Good people vote with the liberals!
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
You're free to believe the fantasy, but I disagree that the Democrats only want freedom for everyone.
You're free to claim I'm a deluded, Hillary-hating RW idiot, but I disagree that she's as lily-white as you believe. Even the Democrats were glad to see her leave.
I've never denied that the Republican Party has become a party of racist pedos, hypocrites and criminals. That doesn't give the Democrats a free pass to be the same or to seek authoritarian measures against Americans.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch Uncle,
I hear ya. I get where you're coming from. Nobody can credibly claim Democrats are perfect. Far from it. What Democrats are, sadly enough, is our best hope. Do they have dirt? Oh, yeah. They've got dirt. If it's dirt to be sought, Democrats deliver. Enough to keep the Right Wing Spin Machine zinging along 100mph. Of course, the Right Wing Spin Machine doesn't really need facts, but you give them actual facts of Democrat indiscretions and they're going to town with it. Yup. That's all going on.
But the pitiful truth is: Democrats, despite all their immense shortcomings, are our best hope.
Now that's a tough nut to swallow, I know. I didn't like it very much myself. But that's the conclusion I've come to.
And there are very promising goals to be had there.
Here's why and how to have hope with Democrats:
1. You can't do anything big in government without political capital (PC.)
2. Republicans and Democrats share the lion's share of PC.
3. If one finds the Republican side unacceptable, the only source of possible matching PC to the Republican PC is Democrats.
Boom. That's it. Irrefutable logic of why to support Democrats.
Now for the hope part. Political Parties don't stay the same. They can change their platforms. They can be steered. A popular idea can take hold in the populace, and if it is recognized that there is a way to ride that idea to political success, PC goes to the person/people who can do that. That is the genius part of Trump, (to be honest he does excel at that, diabolical as his motives are.) PC doesn't have to be for greed or self aggrandizement. It can be for good.
The Women's Suffrage movement became huge PC, and it was for the good.
Like-minded people who have faith in our most secure ever election system need to join the Democratic Party and steer it towards whatever you want it to be. That's politics. You can't wait for that perfect third party. If you wan to effect change you have to go with one of the existing parties (unless you want to get out there and try to create a new one.) You pick one, big or small. But only if you really want to do your civic duty to America, you commit to it, you become a party worker or a donor. Staying independent is not committing to American civic duty. That's just waiting to see what others are doing and criticizing both sides, but being non-committal. Our self-government depends on a well informed and actively engaged populace. There's nothing about a constantly judgemental non-committal crowd in there.
We don't have a well informed and actively engaged populace.
Only some Americans fit that description. The more of a well informed and actively engaged populace we have, the better our government will be.
And since we only have a low percentage of Americans who are really well informed and actively engaged in our politics and guiding our government to fairness, our government is pathetically astray from the mission of serving America. It's only the government we can have with this high level of government resentment. Pretty far from ideal.
We're never getting the ideal government. What we will get out of our government is essentially what we put into it.
So, somewhere between people who resent our government and always try to hold it back; and people who want to guide it toward greatness, always improve it; and people who just don't really care and can't be bothered to ever consider civic duty and only vote out of guilt for not doing more for their country if ever, our government derives it's mandate to keep America organized and the people happy.
A daunting task. Quite impossible to shine in that capacity, but that is what we demand, what creates the government we have.
It can certainly be steered, but there are a lot of hands on the steering wheel.
We need as many good civic-minded American hands on that wheel as possible.
And that leads to the irrefutable conclusion:
The currently most logical way to guide America toward good is to join the Democratic Party and actively guide the Democratic Party toward good.
The people who hate government attacked it on January 6th 2021. We need the people who love America to vote with the Democrats this time to save their namesake.
Democracy itself is on the line.
I hear ya. I get where you're coming from. Nobody can credibly claim Democrats are perfect. Far from it. What Democrats are, sadly enough, is our best hope. Do they have dirt? Oh, yeah. They've got dirt. If it's dirt to be sought, Democrats deliver. Enough to keep the Right Wing Spin Machine zinging along 100mph. Of course, the Right Wing Spin Machine doesn't really need facts, but you give them actual facts of Democrat indiscretions and they're going to town with it. Yup. That's all going on.
But the pitiful truth is: Democrats, despite all their immense shortcomings, are our best hope.
Now that's a tough nut to swallow, I know. I didn't like it very much myself. But that's the conclusion I've come to.
And there are very promising goals to be had there.
Here's why and how to have hope with Democrats:
1. You can't do anything big in government without political capital (PC.)
2. Republicans and Democrats share the lion's share of PC.
3. If one finds the Republican side unacceptable, the only source of possible matching PC to the Republican PC is Democrats.
Boom. That's it. Irrefutable logic of why to support Democrats.
Now for the hope part. Political Parties don't stay the same. They can change their platforms. They can be steered. A popular idea can take hold in the populace, and if it is recognized that there is a way to ride that idea to political success, PC goes to the person/people who can do that. That is the genius part of Trump, (to be honest he does excel at that, diabolical as his motives are.) PC doesn't have to be for greed or self aggrandizement. It can be for good.
The Women's Suffrage movement became huge PC, and it was for the good.
Like-minded people who have faith in our most secure ever election system need to join the Democratic Party and steer it towards whatever you want it to be. That's politics. You can't wait for that perfect third party. If you wan to effect change you have to go with one of the existing parties (unless you want to get out there and try to create a new one.) You pick one, big or small. But only if you really want to do your civic duty to America, you commit to it, you become a party worker or a donor. Staying independent is not committing to American civic duty. That's just waiting to see what others are doing and criticizing both sides, but being non-committal. Our self-government depends on a well informed and actively engaged populace. There's nothing about a constantly judgemental non-committal crowd in there.
We don't have a well informed and actively engaged populace.
Only some Americans fit that description. The more of a well informed and actively engaged populace we have, the better our government will be.
And since we only have a low percentage of Americans who are really well informed and actively engaged in our politics and guiding our government to fairness, our government is pathetically astray from the mission of serving America. It's only the government we can have with this high level of government resentment. Pretty far from ideal.
We're never getting the ideal government. What we will get out of our government is essentially what we put into it.
So, somewhere between people who resent our government and always try to hold it back; and people who want to guide it toward greatness, always improve it; and people who just don't really care and can't be bothered to ever consider civic duty and only vote out of guilt for not doing more for their country if ever, our government derives it's mandate to keep America organized and the people happy.
A daunting task. Quite impossible to shine in that capacity, but that is what we demand, what creates the government we have.
It can certainly be steered, but there are a lot of hands on the steering wheel.
We need as many good civic-minded American hands on that wheel as possible.
And that leads to the irrefutable conclusion:
The currently most logical way to guide America toward good is to join the Democratic Party and actively guide the Democratic Party toward good.
The people who hate government attacked it on January 6th 2021. We need the people who love America to vote with the Democrats this time to save their namesake.
Democracy itself is on the line.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
We need to turn the Democratic Party in the: "Save The Planet Party."
We have to save the planet from Republican extremism.
We have to save the planet from Republican extremism.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Speaking of propaganda:
Sorry, but disagreed that the Democrats are looking out for the best interests of all Americans, supporting individual rights and the savior of our democracy against anyone not a Democrat.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch Uncle,
Some are. Some are not. One thing remains. We have a better chance with the Democratic Party than the other one.
Think about democracy itself. That's what the Democratic Party is based on. And now, Republicans are drawing even THAT into question.
It's a no-brainer to go with Democrats for the foreseeable future.
We, the members of the Democratic Party, guide it toward where we want it to go. We need more well informed people to join in that effort. It's our best hope.
Some are. Some are not. One thing remains. We have a better chance with the Democratic Party than the other one.
Think about democracy itself. That's what the Democratic Party is based on. And now, Republicans are drawing even THAT into question.
It's a no-brainer to go with Democrats for the foreseeable future.
We, the members of the Democratic Party, guide it toward where we want it to go. We need more well informed people to join in that effort. It's our best hope.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
You know the Democrats could use more gun advocates or else they are going to end up totally against all guns.
Parties change.
We've seen the ugly side of that with the Republicans.
Parties can also change for the better.
We saw that with the Democrats in the 60's.
Parties change.
We've seen the ugly side of that with the Republicans.
Parties can also change for the better.
We saw that with the Democrats in the 60's.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Please name a One Party nation that turned out well.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Dutch,
That can't be done any more than one could name a nation that turned out well with no political parties.
Political parties are like governments. They are never ideal but they are way more effective than nothing.
In order to be a part of one you have to be willing to try to make an imperfect thing better, while knowing that perfection will never be possible.
You need to have more idealism than defeatism.
Personally, I don't think America should be a one party nation. Multiple parties keep one another in check.
Just like right now, in order to keep the Republican Party in check, it is necessary to support the Democratic Party.
That can't be done any more than one could name a nation that turned out well with no political parties.
Political parties are like governments. They are never ideal but they are way more effective than nothing.
In order to be a part of one you have to be willing to try to make an imperfect thing better, while knowing that perfection will never be possible.
You need to have more idealism than defeatism.
Personally, I don't think America should be a one party nation. Multiple parties keep one another in check.
Just like right now, in order to keep the Republican Party in check, it is necessary to support the Democratic Party.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
That works both ways. When neither party represents the interests of the nation over their own party, then the best thing Americans can do is support the challenger in every election.
Guess what that means in 2022? LOL