The problem of evil

Dutch Uncle said:
The field of Comparative Psychology covers this and the answer is "No, they don't". Animals don't think.
Click to expand...

Surely they "think". I mean animals often use TOOLS and crows and ravens are capable of simple reasoning to solve problems.

It is unlikely that chimps have a "Theory of Mind" so it would be hard to apply to them some craft around cooperation for some ineffible "greater good", but that's why they have their instincts which preserve the social order.

Dutch Uncle said:
They only react to their genetics or experiences.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of neurobiology that indicates we function a LOT like that as well. Obviously we are capable of doing a bit more which we do, but a lot of our actions appear to be automatically generated by the brain (which is why we can respond quickly to threats....it's a neurobiological shortcut to aid in survival).

 
Phantasmal said:
Is it though? I guess if you believe in God getting you in the end, in eternal reward and punishment then it’s satisfying. I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell, so I count on humans being just, and that’s been a disappointment.
Click to expand...
If you put your complete faith in human kindness and goodness, you will often be disappointed. :)

Most human beings try hard, but they often fall short because....wait for it....they are humans. LOL

Look at the kids who put their heroes on pedestals only to be disappointed in the end because, be they sports stars, Hollywood celebrities or war heroes, those heroes are still humans. What ethologist Desmond Morris called "naked apes". Take people as they are and not the way we wish them to be. This includes the multiple authors of the Bible including the people who edited and assembled it into the version commonly used today.
 
Daylight63 said:
Surely they "think". I mean animals often use TOOLS and crows and ravens are capable of simple reasoning to solve problems.

It is unlikely that chimps have a "Theory of Mind" so it would be hard to apply to them some craft around cooperation for some ineffible "greater good", but that's why they have their instincts which preserve the social order.



There's a lot of neurobiology that indicates we function a LOT like that as well. Obviously we are capable of doing a bit more which we do, but a lot of our actions appear to be automatically generated by the brain (which is why we can respond quickly to threats....it's a neurobiological shortcut to aid in survival).
Click to expand...
You're free to believe a crow can change a tire, Perry. You admitted being ignorant of Comparative Psychology but, suddenly, you're an expert. :)

No shit.

Yes, at base, humans are animals. We have a "lizard brain" and other parts that hail back to our common ancestors with other animals....but that's not what is being discussed, is it? Can an animal be evil, Perry? To be Evil requires choice. Animals can't choose since they only react to their genetics and/or experiences.

Is a cat toying with a mouse evil, Perry? Cruel? Or is it just a cat being a cat?
 
Phantasmal said:
Is it though? I guess if you believe in God getting you in the end, in eternal reward and punishment then it’s satisfying. I don’t believe in Heaven or Hell, so I count on humans being just, and that’s been a disappointment.
Click to expand...
I count on humans beings to be just too, but that's not the way it works out in reality.

How often does justice really prevail over evil? Evil all too frequently wins and never faces justice. Stalin died comfortably in his Dacha after a lifetime of murder, cruelty, and depravity.

Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Bazaar Al-Assad are most probably all going to die comfortably in their beds in Moscow and Pyongyang.

I guess we can just admit to ourselves that there is no ultimate justice, and rarely does justice prevail. It's not a pleasant way to look at the human condition, but maybe that's just the discouraging reality.
 
Cypress said:
I count on humans being just too, but that's not the way it works out in reality.

How often does justice really prevail over evil? Evil all too frequently wins and never faces justice. Stalin died comfortably in his Dacha after a lifetime of murder, cruelty, and depravity.

Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Bazaar Al-Assad are most probably all going to die comfortably in their beds in Moscow and Pyongyang.

I guess we can just admit to ourselves that there is no ultimate justice, and rarely does justice prevail. It's not a pleasant way to look at the human condition, but maybe that's just the discouraging reality.
Click to expand...

Fearing that others will not be punished for their sins is a pretty juvenile and petty way to understand the world. What you SHOULD be thinking of is what punishment will YOU get for your wrongs?

That's the part of Christian morality that I think actually escapes you. For me it is one of the most powerful aspects of Christianity. Not looking outward to see who is bad and must be punished, but to keep our hands firmly on the beam in our own eye.
 
Daylight63 said:
Again, not sure who Perry is.

But the version I was referencing was the one you were talking about.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt you truly believe that just like Sybil denies his other personalities. Perry is a psycho lied about having a PhD and then disappeared from the forum, probably because of sex crimes, but who followed Cypress around just like you do.

What version was I talking about, Perry?
 
Daylight63 said:
Fearing that others will not be punished for their sins is a pretty juvenile and petty way to understand the world. What you SHOULD be thinking of is what punishment will YOU get for your wrongs?

That's the part of Christian morality that I think actually escapes you. For me it is one of the most powerful aspects of Christianity. Not looking outward to see who is bad and must be punished, but to keep our hands firmly on the beam in our own eye.
Click to expand...
QED
 
Daylight63 said:
I've always found the "I don't like this because it makes me sad" approach to understanding how the world works to be less than appealing. But you are not alone. A lot of people are terrified of facing a reality that doesn't care about one human's most intense wishes.

It may be that the universe DOES care about YOU but I doubt it. Given the fact that the vast majority of the universe is wholly antithetical to any life I'm guessing there's ZERO reason to assume it must care about us somehow.
Click to expand...
I am agnostic about it. Confucius famously said we do not even understand life yet, how can we be expected to know about death?


Nihilism and cynicism don't appeal to me. But it's certainly possible that we are only collections of quarks and electrons just dancing to the double helix strands of deoxyribonucleic acid.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I have no doubt you truly believe that just like Sybil denies his other personalities. Perry is a psycho lied about having a PhD and then disappeared from the forum, probably because of sex crimes, but who followed Cypress around just like you do.

What version was I talking about, Perry?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not Perry. Sorry for any confusion. I have only one identity on here. This is me.

The version I was talking about was the one you described in your post.
 
Cypress said:
I count on humans beings to be just too, but that's not the way it works out in reality.

How often does justice really prevail over evil? Evil all too frequently wins and never faces justice. Stalin died comfortably in his Dacha after a lifetime of murder, cruelty, and depravity.

Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Bazaar Al-Assad are most probably all going to die comfortably in their beds in Moscow and Pyongyang.

I guess we can just admit to ourselves that there is no ultimate justice, and rarely does justice prevail. It's not a pleasant way to look at the human condition, but maybe that's just the discouraging reality.
Click to expand...
Disagreed on evil since 1) Good prevailed over evil in WWII and 2) Stalin died knowing he was dying after a stroke. He'd been in poor health since the end of WWII. As for whether he was evil or not, remains a POV. He caused the death of up to 39M Soviets but also turned a Third World Shithole into a global superpower.

There's a big difference between "evil frequently wins" and "Life isn't fair". :)
 
Daylight63 said:
Thanks for the explanation. I'm not Perry. Sorry for any confusion. I have only one identity on here. This is me.

The version I was talking about was the one you described in your post.
Click to expand...
No worries, Perry.

What version was I describing in which post, son?
 
Cypress said:
Nihilism and cynicism don't appeal to me.
Click to expand...

Understood. You are not alone. But your reasons seem kind of petulant. You are upset that in an atheistic universe some people don't get the punishment you think they should get.

Which is DOUBLY ironic for you to then be such a defender of Christ's teachings a core part of Western Morality. Since Christ's teachings are the EXACT OPPOSITE of that desire.

It's understandable if you don't get that part of the faith but it does make me wonder why you are such a defender of Christ's teachings when you find them so repugnant. I highly recommend you check out these verses

Luke 6:31
Matthew 5:43-48
Matthew 5:38-40


Cypress said:
But it's certainly possible that we are only collections of quarks and electrons just dancing to the double helix strands of deoxyribonucleic acid.
Click to expand...

We probably are.
 
Daylight63 said:
Understood. You are not alone. But your reasons seem kind of petulant. You are upset that in an atheistic universe some people don't get the punishment you think they should get.

Which is DOUBLY ironic for you to then be such a defender of Christ's teachings a core part of Western Morality. Since Christ's teachings are the EXACT OPPOSITE of that desire.

It's understandable if you don't get that part of the faith but it does make me wonder why you are such a defender of Christ's teachings when you find them so repugnant. I highly recommend you check out these verses

Luke 6:31
Matthew 5:43-48
Matthew 5:38-40




We probably are.
Click to expand...
^^^
Classic Perry. :thup:
 
Daylight63 said:
Why would I be able to explain your concept? Especially if you can't explain it.
Click to expand...
You're free to dance around, Perry. It's expected. You babbled some bullshit and then couldn't explain yourself. I understand, son.

What concept of mine evades you? My point that you were wrong about chimps changing tires? My claim that the Bible was written by people? My point that human beings are flawed by nature?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Disagreed on evil since 1) Good prevailed over evil in WWII and 2) Stalin died knowing he was dying after a stroke. He'd been in poor health since the end of WWII. As for whether he was evil or not, remains a POV. He caused the death of up to 39M Soviets but also turned a Third World Shithole into a global superpower.

There's a big difference between "evil frequently wins" and "Life isn't fair". :)
Click to expand...
Good prevails over evil sometimes and at key moments. I did not deny that.

However, I challenge anyone to look at five thousand years of human history and tell me evil and cruelty usually are held accountable by justice.

Look how Trump got off scot free! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top