The Reckoning we Need to Ensure a "More Perfect Union"

Whythink

Verified User
“Whenever I hear white Americans say “my family had nothing to do with slavery, so why should I apologize?” I think of Willy Brandt. Willy Brandt was Germany’s Chancellor from 1969 to 1974.

In 1970, he made an historic visit to Poland. Brandt came to the site of the Warsaw Ghetto—an open-air walled prison where the Nazis forced Jews to live before “liquidating” it in 1943. Brandt came to acknowledge Germany’s culpability in the murder of 3 million Polish Jews—90% of the country’s Jewish population and nearly half of the 6 million Jews killed and burned to ash by the Nazis. Brandt was there to lay a wreath. But as he approached the memorial, he fell to his knees in anguish. It was an act of deep humility and courage.

At the time, there were older Germans who hated it. Who saw it as a sign of weakness. Brandt’s gesture could not bring back 6 million murdered Jews or the millions of European civilians also murdered. But it was the beginning of Germany’s true reckoning with the past.

It’s important to add that Willy Brandt fled Nazi Germany as a young man and survived the war in hiding as a dissident. He was a marked man by the Nazis often escaping capture and death. So if anyone had an excuse to say “I’m not responsible for what my country did”—it was him. But Brandt understood that he was part of a society that committed mass murder on an unimaginable scale. And he had to act. Brandt knelt in Warsaw a few years before I was born. But as a descendant of victims, I remember learning about what he did—even as a child. It wasn’t going to erase the past...but it was a start toward reconciliation and building a more just society.

As a boy in the early 1980s, I remember my parents had friends in their 40s (close to my age today) who had numbers tattooed on their arms. Holocaust survivors. They were young and vibrant. I remember that. And by that time, their trauma had been recognized by much of the world. It didn’t change their pain and the nightmares of their lived experiences but also they knew that their suffering had been acknowledged. That matters. Germany is an imperfect country. I know. I lived there. But the average German knows and understands the details and legacy of the mass murder and persecution their forbears committed. German schoolchildren visit the remains of death camps. There are monuments to the murdered Jews of Europe across the country. There are national days of mourning. You’d be hard pressed to find a public monument to any Nazi. In fact you won’t because they are not allowed.

Now imagine in the US, we have monuments to men who fought a war to preserve the institutionalized terrorization and enslavement of African Americans. Every day, millions of African Americans in cities throughout the US pass those statues. It’s not just a reminder of their oppression. But a reminder of their country’s failure to reckon with the past.

In Germany, there are still racist and anti-Semitic people. That exists around the world. No society is immune. But expressing pro-Nazi views or denying the cruelty of their Nazi past is culturally unacceptable—and in some cases, illegal. It means that—as a general rule—German society has been able to develop into a healthier and more just society. Does every German like it? No. There are plenty who bitterly resent the fact that their national institutions memorialize the murdered Jews of Europe. But they are a distinct minority of people whose voices are roundly condemned and quashed. Because Germany knows that hatred—at the end of the day—is self corroding. It is bad for Germany.

Most schoolchildren in the United States still do not learn that “plantations” were concentration camps where terror, rape, assault and brutal family separation took place. They do not learn about the generations of families ripped apart at the snap of a finger. Or the immense wealth that was created and passed on (to this day) by people who benefited from the free labor of enslaved humans. And that for more than 100 years after the civil war, African Americans continued to be terrorized by the state apparatus.

I believe if more white Americans understood these and so many other horrors of the black experience in America—and truly committed ourselves to a reckoning—with both real and symbolic reparations—our country would become stronger, more just, healthier and prouder.” - Guy Roz

I found this to be very powerful to me. Personally, this is a great example of how to move forward. I just hope it isn't too late. Unfortunately, the backlash to this thought process will be strong. It will be seen as divisive and a sign of weakness.

Let's Hope our "More Perfect Union" continues to be attainable. Those ideals truly make this the greatest country.
 
Racism. Your racism is NOT the path to a more perfect Union. Indeed, there is no Union right now, thanks to the Democrats.
 
Racism. Your racism is NOT the path to a more perfect Union. Indeed, there is no Union right now, thanks to the Democrats.
Ha! "My racism". There is absolutely nothing racist about acknowledging the history of this country. Failure to acknowledge is the real concern. That is when racism remains.

What part of post-WWII Germany and its processing the evil it was during the Holocaust do you disagree with?
Should Germany have monuments to Nazis as the US does to Confederates?

I am curious, what specifically do you have an issue with?
 
I found this to be very powerful to me. Personally, this is a great example of how to move forward. I just hope it isn't too late. Unfortunately, the backlash to this thought process will be strong. It will be seen as divisive and a sign of weakness.

Let's Hope our "More Perfect Union" continues to be attainable. Those ideals truly make this the greatest country.

I am not sure what anything he said has to do with the issue of slavery. The fact remains that I see no reason to pay for a sin I didn't commit to people who were nver victims of the sin. I have yet to hear a cogent argument for it.
 
I am not sure what anything he said has to do with the issue of slavery. The fact remains that I see no reason to pay for a sin I didn't commit to people who were nver victims of the sin. I have yet to hear a cogent argument for it.
What "paying for"?

Acknowledging and respecting that history is not paying for.

Putting up monuments that honor those enslaved instead of the slaveholders and successionists is not paying for.

Respecting that this horrific history has an impact on our culture today isn't paying for.

No, he obviously wasn't talking directly about slavery. However, the comparison is the US after slavery vs Germany after the Holocaust. Are the 2 countries at different places regarding their ultimate sin because of how they processed what they did?

The US followed slavery with 60 + years of Jim Crow. Germany followed the Holocaust with a leader in tears.

There is no paying for. Just a lack of denial and a little empathy.
872a288b57559c409b73178d35e214c3.jpg
 
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What "paying for"?

Acknowledging and respecting that history is not paying for.

Putting up monuments that honor those enslaved instead of the slaveholders and successionists is not paying for.

Respecting that this horrific history has an impact on our culture today isn't paying for.

There is no paying for. Just a lack of denial and a little empathy.
872a288b57559c409b73178d35e214c3.jpg

Are you pretending not to know or is it that you're just ignorant to it?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/colu...0200817-xdxu4ipu5rhqzkbdl4fpslsnha-story.html

Why is it necessary to tear down one statue if you would like to erect another?

I learned about slavery in school didn't you? I learned it was terrible, didn't you?

Interesting quote by Plato but the left seems to possess very little empathy for anything they disagree with. As I've said to you before my biggest problem with leftists of their clear lack of self awareness.
 
Are you pretending not to know or is it that you're just ignorant to it?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/colu...0200817-xdxu4ipu5rhqzkbdl4fpslsnha-story.html

Why is it necessary to tear down one statue if you would like to erect another?

I learned about slavery in school didn't you? I learned it was terrible, didn't you?

Interesting quote by Plato but the left seems to possess very little empathy for anything they disagree with. As I've said to you before my biggest problem with leftists of their clear lack of self awareness.
Lol! No self-awareness yet you don't see the difference between a monument honoring a slave holding secessionist and one honoring those who were enslaved.

Talk about lack of self-awareness and a bunch of privilege.
 
Lol! No self-awareness yet you don't see the difference between a monument honoring a slave holding secessionist and one honoring those who were enslaved.

Talk about lack of self-awareness and a bunch of privilege.

I see the difference clearly but you didn't address my question.

What "privilege" do I possess? You're inner retarded cunt is starting to show. I am trying to converse sensibly with you.
 
I see the difference clearly but you didn't address my question.

What "privilege" do I possess? You're inner retarded cunt is starting to show. I am trying to converse sensibly with you.

The privilege that you don't have to be overly concerned about what happened to previous generations.

And don't claim to be "sensible" when as soon as I disagree or state my point strongly you start using language that is offensive. That is the antithesis of "sensible".

It is easy for me to say I didn't do it. Who cares about the Lee statue?!?! It is a sign of privilege. My ancestors weren't slave owners but they also weren't enslaved. They also didn't face racis. And terrorism because of their race. My grandparents didn't see the Lee statue built during a time when they could be murdered for trying to vote.

I have no idea what it means to have people I love, grandparents tell me those stories of their actual life experiences. That is privilege.
 
The privilege that you don't have to be overly concerned about what happened to previous generations.

And don't claim to be "sensible" when as soon as I disagree or state my point strongly you start using language that is offensive. That is the antithesis of "sensible".

It is easy for me to say I didn't do it. Who cares about the Lee statue?!?! It is a sign of privilege. My ancestors weren't slave owners but they also weren't enslaved. They also didn't face racis. And terrorism because of their race. My grandparents didn't see the Lee statue built during a time when they could be murdered for trying to vote.

I have no idea what it means to have people I love, grandparents tell me those stories of their actual life experiences. That is privilege.

That makes no sense whatsoever. No one have to be "overly concerned" about it whatever that means.

It's easy because I DIDNT DO IT. A Lee statue is a sign of our complicated past. It is not our present.

No that's fate. Our nation is no where near what it used to be but to listen to the deranged left in this you would think it's the 1800s. It's asinine.
 
I found this to be very powerful to me. Personally, this is a great example of how to move forward. I just hope it isn't too late. Unfortunately, the backlash to this thought process will be strong. It will be seen as divisive and a sign of weakness.

Let's Hope our "More Perfect Union" continues to be attainable. Those ideals truly make this the greatest country.

collective punishment is outlawed in the u.n.

reparations among racial lines will never happen. its too stupid.

very few americans owned slaves. most were family farmers or sharecroppers.

take your bullshit somewhere else.
 
Our nation is no where near what it used to be but to listen to the deranged left in this you would think it's the 1800s. It's asinine.

And if you listen to the right everything, unless run by Democrats, is free from issues and run perfectly. If you don't believe the "more perfect" union is now perfect (minus Democrats) then you don't love this country.
 
collective punishment is outlawed in the u.n.

reparations among racial lines will never happen. its too stupid.

very few americans owned slaves. most were family farmers or sharecroppers.

Nobbody said anything about reparations or collective punishment.

Obviously this is too complicated for you to have a conversation about.

Thanks for sharing.

take your bullshit somewhere else
 
And if you listen to the right everything, unless run by Democrats, is free from issues and run perfectly. If you don't believe the "more perfect" union is now perfect (minus Democrats) then you don't love this country.

This is far from a perfect country but it's the closest thing on this fucking planet. We have made no significant headway toward improving America since the left was butt hurt by trump's election. He did nothing to help change people's minds about him l but in all fairness I don't think he ever could have changed anyone's mind about him. There was too much hatred.
 
This is far from a perfect country but it's the closest thing on this fucking planet. We have made no significant headway toward improving America since the left was butt hurt by trump's election. He did nothing to help change people's minds about him l but in all fairness I don't think he ever could have changed anyone's mind about him. There was too much hatred.
I agree! However, when this isn't denounced as loudly as a peaceful protest during the national anthem. We still have major problems. Perhaps that is why the story connected with me so much.
c14a9f317f44ba0fbeeee6b5b1d898ac.jpg
1b6b8b7c574727cc2f019106284a9b06.jpg
 
I agree! However, when this isn't denounced as loudly as a peaceful protest during the national anthem. We still have major problems. Perhaps that is why the story connected with me so much.
c14a9f317f44ba0fbeeee6b5b1d898ac.jpg
1b6b8b7c574727cc2f019106284a9b06.jpg

The reason is that athlete shows nothing but contempt for America while the other shows contempt for the govt. I realize talking badly about the govt is a mortal sin to some people but it really isn't. And BTW there are no committees being formed to look into her behavior so to claim it wasn't denounced as loudly seems hollow.
 
Ha! "My racism". There is absolutely nothing racist about acknowledging the history of this country. Failure to acknowledge is the real concern. That is when racism remains.

What part of post-WWII Germany and its processing the evil it was during the Holocaust do you disagree with?
Should Germany have monuments to Nazis as the US does to Confederates?

I am curious, what specifically do you have an issue with?

Your racism.
 
What "paying for"?

Acknowledging and respecting that history is not paying for.

Putting up monuments that honor those enslaved instead of the slaveholders and successionists is not paying for.

Respecting that this horrific history has an impact on our culture today isn't paying for.

No, he obviously wasn't talking directly about slavery. However, the comparison is the US after slavery vs Germany after the Holocaust. Are the 2 countries at different places regarding their ultimate sin because of how they processed what they did?

The US followed slavery with 60 + years of Jim Crow. Germany followed the Holocaust with a leader in tears.

There is no paying for. Just a lack of denial and a little empathy.

Go stuff your racism elsewhere.
 
The privilege that you don't have to be overly concerned about what happened to previous generations.

And don't claim to be "sensible" when as soon as I disagree or state my point strongly you start using language that is offensive. That is the antithesis of "sensible".
Your point is offensive. Racism is offensive. By our own definition, you are not sensible.
It is easy for me to say I didn't do it. Who cares about the Lee statue?!?! It is a sign of privilege. My ancestors weren't slave owners but they also weren't enslaved. They also didn't face racis. And terrorism because of their race. My grandparents didn't see the Lee statue built during a time when they could be murdered for trying to vote.
Racism. Take it elsewhere, dude.
I have no idea what it means to have people I love, grandparents tell me those stories of their actual life experiences. That is privilege.

Irrelevant. Bigotry.
 
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