The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving to be a scam
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
Fair enough.
If that's directed at someone like Walt, I'd say that his civility is a sign of intelligence. As mentioned before, there are many who can't seem to manage being civil- those are the types of people I tend to give less time to.
Neoclitorus
Best
zelensky won't agree either.The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving a scam
The White House’s breathless – some might say witless – optimism at the beginning of the talks has evaporated.
Trump himself seems to be waking up to the realisation that the Kremlin is playing him for a fool.
Two rounds of peace talks in, and the basic rhythms of Putin’s unique negotiating style are becoming clear: Lie. Bomb. Lie. Bomb.
Just a day after a new supposed breakthrough this week in Riyadh on a moratorium on attacks in the Black Sea, Putin’s deadly drones once again swarmed into Kharkiv destroying apartments and stores and injuring 21 people.
After Donald Trump spoke to Vladimir Putin earlier this month, the White House claimed that “a future with an improved bilateral relationship between the United States and Russia has huge upside” and spoke of “enormous economic deals and geopolitical stability when peace has been achieved”.
Days later Kremlin representatives sat down with their US counterparts in Saudi Arabia and agreed a partial ceasefire suspending attacks on energy infrastructure. Putin claimed that he had issued orders to cancel an imminent strike. Later that very night Russian missiles rained down on Kyiv, killing a young family in their beds.
This week the pattern has repeated. Putin’s envoys claimed that a ceasefire on the Black Sea had been thrashed out that would allow free export of Russian grain and fertilisers. Another lie, or at least a distraction, because neither commodity is currently sanctioned or restricted.
What the Kremlin really wants is free passage for its oil tankers and cover for its battered Black Sea Fleet to return to its base at Sevastopol, from which it has been forced to withdraw by Ukrainian missile attacks. And even as the delegations flew home, 86 deadly Iranian-made Shahed drones were rolled out of their containers, assembled, armed and launched at Kharkiv. More than 20 made it through Ukrainian defences, bringing more fire and fury to Kharkiv’s long-suffering civilians even as Putin claimed to be talking peace.
But perhaps Trump and his billionaire oil lawyer envoy Steve Witkoff aren’t the suckers that Putin takes them for. For one, the White House’s breathless – some might say witless – optimism at the beginning of the talks has evaporated. The tone of the readout of this week’s talks in Riyadh was bone-dry: “The United States and Russia will continue working toward achieving a durable and lasting peace.”
Trump himself seems to be waking up to the realisation that the Kremlin is playing him for a fool.
The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving a scam
Two rounds of peace talks in, and the basic rhythms of Putin’s unique negotiating style are becoming clear: Lie. Bomb. Lie. Bomb. Just a day after a new supposed breakthrough this week in Riyadh on a moratorium on attacks in the Black Sea, Putin’s deadly drones once again swarmed into Kharkiv...news.yahoo.com
let them murder each other.
nobody gives a shit.
Neoclitorus
Best
and all we really need to do is self rely.
china depends on our p.o. orders.
their economy also depends on the American dollar.
and bitcoin is a Gay fag thing.
Putin cannot survive a reasonable peace. Too much of the Russian economy is dependent on war. A peace along the current lines would mean Putin is dead within a year.
Putin has two possible paths for survival: either a massive victory, or continued warfare. A 30 day truce that does not include his four demands: the entire "Four Dunbas Provinces", complete disarmament of the Ukrainian people, an absolute promise of no outside assistance to Ukraine (whatever the Russians do), and finally that we address the "root causes" of Putin's invasion by surrendering Eastern and Central Europe to his sphere of influence.
Wrong....in a universe where stupid hurts you pull this stunt.
I personally believe that Putin's demands are fairly reasonable. I'd also like to point out that at least the last I heard him talk of this, it seemed that he was amenable to not getting much more if any new land in Ukraine if a permanent peace deal was enacted now. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen, and so I strongly suspect that Russia will be taking a lot more Ukrainian territory before this is done. Time will tell.
I think you know I disagree with that assessment, as well as why I disagree with it. In case you don't, or for the audience, the reasons I disagree are outlined in former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jacques Baud's essay which he wrote shortly after Russia's military operation in Ukraine began. It can be seen here:
Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative
Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.
scheerpost.com
It has been central to all Putin's demands. He wants at least the four provinces and Crimea. The important thing to remember is that he does not control a third of the Donbas Provinces, and has no immediate hope of capturing them. He simply has no way of crossing a defended Dnieper River.
Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons on the promise that Russia would defend their borders.
I feel a bit silly at this point. You are completely correct that Putin has been demanding Crimea and the four provinces that he currently controls for the most part. I was thinking of the fact that if the conflict doesn't end soon, he may take control of -another- 4 provinces/regions. So long as a peace deal is done now, I believe that can be avoided.
I have already pointed out a detailed article wherein a substacker named Simplicius has pointed out that even Zelensky's government believes that Russia may in fact cross the Dnieper and take more territory in the near future. I did so again in the very post you were responding to, this time quoting material from Simplicius' Ukrainian source. Feel free to review the post you just responded to if you missed it:
In any case, I strongly suspect that if Ukraine were to agree to let Russia keep all or at least most of the territory it currently controls, as well as the other terms outlined in the Reuters article you linked to above, Putin might be satisfied with that and agree to a lasting peace agreement wherein Ukraine gets to keep what it still has. The longer Ukraine waits, however, the more likely Russia is to take even more territory and as I've said before, I doubt Russia will let go of much if any of the territory it captures.
I haven't seen the exact wording of the agreement, but I can say this- the United States played a crucial role in what amounted to a -coup- of the Ukrainian government back in 2014, leading to Viktor Yanukovych, who was the elected Ukrainian President at the time, fleeing to Russia for his life. I strongly believe that that was the primary cause of all of this mess. Prior to that, Viktor Yanukovych had been trying to find a balance between western interests and Russia, which is ideal since Ukraine is essentially in between both. Alas, the United States decided to put their efforts into removing him from power, which they succeeded in doing, and replacing him with far right nationalists and outright Neo Nazis. Only then did the dominoes in this tragedy start to fall, first with Crimeans voting to return to Russia, which Russia accepted, and then with eastern Ukraine rebelling under the new Ukrainian government that was intolerant of not just Russia culture but their language as well.
The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving a scam
The White House’s breathless – some might say witless – optimism at the beginning of the talks has evaporated.
Trump himself seems to be waking up to the realisation that the Kremlin is playing him for a fool.
Two rounds of peace talks in, and the basic rhythms of Putin’s unique negotiating style are becoming clear: Lie. Bomb. Lie. Bomb.
Just a day after a new supposed breakthrough this week in Riyadh on a moratorium on attacks in the Black Sea, Putin’s deadly drones once again swarmed into Kharkiv destroying apartments and stores and injuring 21 people.
After Donald Trump spoke to Vladimir Putin earlier this month, the White House claimed that “a future with an improved bilateral relationship between the United States and Russia has huge upside” and spoke of “enormous economic deals and geopolitical stability when peace has been achieved”.
Days later Kremlin representatives sat down with their US counterparts in Saudi Arabia and agreed a partial ceasefire suspending attacks on energy infrastructure. Putin claimed that he had issued orders to cancel an imminent strike. Later that very night Russian missiles rained down on Kyiv, killing a young family in their beds.
This week the pattern has repeated. Putin’s envoys claimed that a ceasefire on the Black Sea had been thrashed out that would allow free export of Russian grain and fertilisers. Another lie, or at least a distraction, because neither commodity is currently sanctioned or restricted.
What the Kremlin really wants is free passage for its oil tankers and cover for its battered Black Sea Fleet to return to its base at Sevastopol, from which it has been forced to withdraw by Ukrainian missile attacks. And even as the delegations flew home, 86 deadly Iranian-made Shahed drones were rolled out of their containers, assembled, armed and launched at Kharkiv. More than 20 made it through Ukrainian defences, bringing more fire and fury to Kharkiv’s long-suffering civilians even as Putin claimed to be talking peace.
But perhaps Trump and his billionaire oil lawyer envoy Steve Witkoff aren’t the suckers that Putin takes them for. For one, the White House’s breathless – some might say witless – optimism at the beginning of the talks has evaporated. The tone of the readout of this week’s talks in Riyadh was bone-dry: “The United States and Russia will continue working toward achieving a durable and lasting peace.”
Trump himself seems to be waking up to the realisation that the Kremlin is playing him for a fool.
The Ukraine ‘peace deal’ is proving a scam
Two rounds of peace talks in, and the basic rhythms of Putin’s unique negotiating style are becoming clear: Lie. Bomb. Lie. Bomb. Just a day after a new supposed breakthrough this week in Riyadh on a moratorium on attacks in the Black Sea, Putin’s deadly drones once again swarmed into Kharkiv...
^ this from the retard who was melting down yesterday that Trump is placing sanctions on Putin.
ROFL - fucking Stalinists......
You should try actually reading the agreements instead of trying to fake it.
Obviously, a truce would have him keep control over what he controls, until a peace agreement can be worked out. But a truce should not give Putin more territory that he does not control. That is especially true about the territory on the other side of the Dnieper River. And a truce should not require recognition of his right to control what he controls right now.
Agreed, but there are some problems that Russia has already pointed out. For starters, Zelensky's Ukraine has proven time and again that they can't be trusted. Putin -did- agree to a limited ceasefire involving not attacking energy infrastructure. Ukraine broke this ceasefire almost immediately. Russia's RT points this out on a regular basis. Here's an article on this from March 31st:
Ukraine again violated energy strike ceasefire – Russia
Kiev launched an artillery and drone attack on power grid infrastructure in border Bryansk Region, the Defense Ministry in Moscow has said
Another point to consider is that Ukraine is currently on the backfoot and so Russia has nothing to gain by agreeing to a comprehensive ceasefire, allowing Ukraine to resupply from its NATO allies.
Russia continues to have some hope that Trump's peace overtures may eventually lead to actual peace, but it points out the current problems in the following article:
Moscow weighs in on US approach to resolving Ukraine conflict
Washington’s ceasefire plan does not address the roots of the conflict, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov has said
Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov is cautiously optimistic:
‘Progress’ emerging in US talks – Lavrov
Moscow and Washington are preparing a new round of diplomatic negotiations, according to Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov
I have yet to see Putin demanding this for a truce. Honestly, I think that Putin and Russia in general have very limited interest in a truce, especially considering Zelensky's constant breaking of said temporary agreements- what they'd like is a permanent solution.
I see the opposite. Putin promised to DEFEND Ukraine's borders, not to invade them.
And broke the promise within an hour. For Putin, a real ceasefire would be a major step towards his death. He simply cannot do it.
Sounds strange to say, but both are on the back foot right now. Russia has not been able to get a major breakthrough in several years. They are unable cross the Dnieper River. They are slowly advancing in the center of the front, but they have lost over a third of their original gains.
About a third of what Putin calls the "Four Donbas Provinces" are not controlled by Putin. When Putin demands international recognition that the "Four Donbas Provinces" are Russian, he is demanding internal recognition that he deserves territory he could not take in war. Worse yet, because much of this territory is on the right side of the Dnieper River, that means he is demanding an easy crossing of a major natural defense he cannot get past in war.