The US is not a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic

[Litmus]

... because you have no clue what a fact is.

Ummmmm, actually, facts DO require my approval (BY DEFINITION) or else they are not facts.

EXAMPLE #1: Let's say that you and I are discussing the weight of a gallon of water (at "room temperature"). You say that it weighs 5 pounds. I say that it weighs a bit over 8 pounds. HERE, there is no existence of a fact (since we both disagree about the weight of a gallon of water).

EXAMPLE #2: Let's say that you and I are discussing the weight of a gallon of water (at "room temperature"). You say that it weighs a bit over 8 pounds. I agree with your assertion. HERE, a fact has now been formed (since we both agree about the weight of a gallon of water).

EXAMPLE #3: Let's say that you and I are discussing the weight of a gallon of water (at "room temperature"). You say that it weighs 5 pounds. I agree with your assertion. HERE, a fact has now been formed (since we both agree about the weight of a gallon of water).

In example #1, there is no fact in existence. You are making one claim and I am making an opposing claim. We now need to go through the extended process of forming arguments in order to support our opposing claims.

In example #2, there IS a fact in existence. You made a claim and I agreed with it. There is now no need for us to go through the extended process of forming arguments in order to support the claim being made (since we both agree with it).

In example #3, there IS a fact in existence. You made a claim and I agreed with it. There is now no need for us to go through the extended process of forming arguments in order to support the claim being made (since we both agree with it).

NOTICE: In example #2, the fact that was formed also happened to be true, meanwhile the fact that was formed in example #3 happened to be FALSE. 'Fact' and 'True' are NOT interchangeable terms.

A fact is simply a form of shorthand predicate. Facts are useful for shortening the length of discussions. In and of itself, there is nothing "holy" about a fact. Claiming the mere existence of a fact (whether one actually exists or not) is NOT a "trump card".

... until they're not.

Since we can't even establish a fact about what a fact is, and you have no desire to learn about that which you do not know, I have the feeling that very few facts will be established between us.

dumbest shit ever.

 

[Litmus]

You aren't a moderator on Politiplex, Sybil.

what's politiplex.

should I go infect them with truth?

 

[Publius]

Bullshit, he was right on the mark.

Excuse me, I do not engage with morons

 

[Publius]

You must have a much higher opinion of Libhater's IQ than I do, if you expect him to both read and to understand all of this. There's a reason why certain people, including him, use YT, Twitter, and memes as their sources.

I really don't. He is a PF reject (politicsforum.com)

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I really don't. He is a PF reject (politicsforum.com)

Talk about a poor resume. lol

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I really don't. He is a PF reject (politicsforum.com)

Was @Libhater banned or did he simply cut'n'run?

 

[Into the Night]

@Damocles What is the difference between me using the "@" feature and posts like Sybil's above?

I am not you, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

You must have a much higher opinion of Libhater's IQ than I do, if you expect him to both read and to understand all of this. There's a reason why certain people, including him, use YT, Twitter, and memes as their sources.

Mantra 30a. Lame.

 

[Into the Night]

what's politiplex.

should I go infect them with truth?

Politiplex is another political forum, but has not seen a lot of popularity, mostly because of the massive spam that appears there which I delete from time to time.

It was started by IBdaMann and myself.

Today, it mostly serves as a reference of various documents including the Communist Manifesto, Marx's other writings, the Constitution of the United States, various theories of science explained in detail, my Mantra list (where the numbered Mantras I use are defined and described, a detailed description of the Church of Global Warming and it's buzzwords, etc.

If you wish to join, you are welcome. Go ahead and post normally, ignoring the spam. That spam will disappear again anyway when I find time to delete it. You will find that most users (other than the spammers) tend to be conservative.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

My Poli Sci classes did not say that. You are wrong, right wing wrong.

your poli sci class is liberal indoctrination. you are proof that ignorance is bliss.

 

[Litmus]

your poli sci class is liberal indoctrination. you are proof that ignorance is bliss.

Until you hit the ground.
Doh

 

[martin]

So you lefties stop your nonsense of saying Trump is a threat to our democracy. It's you lefties that are and have been
a threat to our Constitutional Republic. Suck it up lefties. Like the guy in the video says, KNOW YOUR SHIT!

If you knew your shit you would know the U.S. is a "democratic constitutional republic", just as China, for example, is an undemocratic constitutional republic.

The dumb question your thread raises never stops surfacing.

 

[gfm7175]

dumbest shit ever.

That describes your post perfectly.

 

[Litmus]

That describes your post perfectly.

no it doesn't.

 

[Into the Night]

If you knew your shit you would know the U.S. is a "democratic constitutional republic", just as China, for example, is an undemocratic constitutional republic.

The dumb question your thread raises never stops surfacing.

There is no such thing as a 'democratic constitution republic'. Paradox. Irrational. A republic is not a democracy.
The United States was never a democracy. It was organized as a federated republic.

The current government of China is oligarchy. It is not a republic and does not have a constitution.

 

[Publius]

Was @Libhater banned or did he simply cut'n'run?

Dunno, I just don't see him around there any more. They don't allow Troll headers on new threads, which is libhater's favorite trick. Besides, his avatar is a troll, and I pointed that out to the mods. But, this forum isn't moderated, though it claims to be.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Dunno, I just don't see him around there any more. They don't allow Troll headers on new threads, which is libhater's favorite trick. Besides, his avatar is a troll, and I pointed that out to the mods. But, this forum isn't moderated, though it claims to be.

He's a well known liar on this forum. He's lied about being a Christian and he's lied about not hating others. I doubt his claims of being a war hero too.

 

[Publius]

your poli sci class is liberal indoctrination. you are proof that ignorance is bliss.

No republican ever said that US was not a democracy while I was growing up, until rather recently. So, when did they start beating that Drum?

Well, only in the last decade or so, when Republicans realized they only won the popular vote for prez 2 times in the last 30 years.

No wonder they hate democracy, they need to denounce it to feel better about themselves, justify their anti-democratic legislation in the red states.

But, I'm 73 and growing up, everywhere I eve went, political speechs, halls of academia, on TV, not to mention in the Encyclopedia Britannica, and o gov websites, US was always a democracy, AND a 'constitutional republic' and the terms overlap and are not mutually exclusive. Both Repubs and Dems alikee agreed on this point, except in the last decade or so. It's a relatively knew thing they've been harping on, but the reason is that they need to feel better about losing the popular vote for 30 years and their voter suppression legislation they've been enacting in a number of states, red states, of course. And, then Trump tried to thwart democracy with his fake electors, denying the 2020 election, etc, and Reubs need to feel better about Trump's betrayal of democratic values. So, if dems raise these issues, now Repubs just shrug their sholders and say, "Well, America ins't a Democracy anyway, so it's okay'.

Sorry, no can do.

America is both a democracy and a republic.

Republic is the broader term, a republic is a nation of appointed or elected leaders, indirectly or directly, as opposed to a monarchy.

So, you could have a non democratic republic, or a democratic republic. You could have an Islamic Republic, a Calvinist Republic, there are all sorts off republics, but in all of them, they either have elected or appointed leaders. Even if is organized by a constitution, if there is a lot of voting going on in a Republic, constitutional republic, or federal constitutional republic, it is, descriptively speaking, a democracy, or rather, a representative democracy.

Democracy is a descriptive term more than a formal term, which is why you don't see it in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence or the Pledge of Allegiance, just as 'beautiful country' is also a descriptive term, is not in the Constitution, not in the Declaration of independence, and not in the pledge of allegiance, but that doesn't mean America is not a beautiful country. Similarly, it doesn't mean it's not a democracy.

The point is, that argument is flawed logic 'it's not in the constitution, etc'. Just remember, it's a descriptive term, not a formal one, used in high minded speeches, waxing poetic, etc. where 'Republic' is more formal, used on documents, and so forth.

The fact of the matter is that these terms, 'Republic' and 'democracy' are not mutually exlusive.

Yes, Madison made a distinction, but he's the only one that did, even his contemporaries objected to his narrow use of the term, 'democracy'.

By the way, your argument that anything with which you disagree is 'liberal indoctrination', is a weak argument, because I could make the very same claim, that anything I disagree with is conservative/libertarian indoctrination.

In other words, it's a meaningless argument, so much so I call it a non argument.

 

[Nordberg]

your poli sci class is liberal indoctrination. you are proof that ignorance is bliss.

So you are blissful in your ignorance.

 

[Into the Night]

No republican ever said that US was not a democracy while I was growing up, until rather recently. So, when did they start beating that Drum?

Irrelevant. The United States was never a democracy. It is organized as a federated republic.

Well, only in the last decade or so, when Republicans realized they only won the popular vote for prez 2 times in the last 30 years.

The President is not elected by popular vote.

No wonder they hate democracy, they need to denounce it to feel better about themselves, justify their anti-democratic legislation in the red states.

Of course I hate democracy. There is no constitution and no representatives, and it typically dissolves into an oligarchy or dictatorship. It's an unstable form of government (Athens became a dictatorship).

But, I'm 73 and growing up, everywhere I eve went, political speechs, halls of academia, on TV, not to mention in the Encyclopedia Britannica, and o gov websites, US was always a democracy, AND a 'constitutional republic' and the terms overlap and are not mutually exclusive. Both Repubs and Dems alikee agreed on this point, except in the last decade or so. It's a relatively knew thing they've been harping on, but the reason is that they need to feel better about losing the popular vote for 30 years and their voter suppression legislation they've been enacting in a number of states, red states, of course. And, then Trump tried to thwart democracy with his fake electors, denying the 2020 election, etc, and Reubs need to feel better about Trump's betrayal of democratic values. So, if dems raise these issues, now Repubs just shrug their sholders and say, "Well, America ins't a Democracy anyway, so it's okay'.

Sorry, no can do.

America is both a democracy and a republic.

America is a continent. It has many nations. There are currently no democracies anywhere in the world. The last attempt was CHAZ. It became a brutal oligarchy.

Republic is the broader term, a republic is a nation of appointed or elected leaders, indirectly or directly, as opposed to a monarchy.

WRONG. A republic is government by law (a constitution).

So, you could have a non democratic republic, or a democratic republic.

No such thing.

You could have an Islamic Republic,

Islam is a religion, not a form of government.

a Calvinist Republic,

Calvinism is a religion, not a form of government.

there are all sorts off republics,

A republic is government by law (a constitution). That is the only republic there is.

but in all of them, they either have elected or appointed leaders. Even if is organized by a constitution, if there is a lot of voting going on in a Republic, constitutional republic, or federal constitutional republic, it is, descriptively speaking, a democracy, or rather, a representative democracy.

A democracy has no constitution and it has no representatives. A democracy is government by popular vote.

Democracy is a descriptive term more than a formal term,

Nope. It's a formal definition of a type of government. Go learn English.

which is why you don't see it in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence or the Pledge of Allegiance,

But you DO see the word 'republic'. A republic is also a formal term.

just as 'beautiful country' is also a descriptive term, is not in the Constitution, not in the Declaration of independence, and not in the pledge of allegiance, but that doesn't mean America is not a beautiful country. Similarly, it doesn't mean it's not a democracy.

Go learn English.

The point is, that argument is flawed logic 'it's not in the constitution, etc'. Just remember, it's a descriptive term, not a formal one, used in high minded speeches, waxing poetic, etc. where 'Republic' is more formal, used on documents, and so forth.

Because the United States is organized as a federated republic. It is not a democracy. It never was.

The fact of the matter is that these terms, 'Republic' and 'democracy' are not mutually exlusive.

They are mutually exclusive.

Yes, Madison made a distinction, but he's the only one that did, even his contemporaries objected to his narrow use of the term, 'democracy'.

The United States isn't a democracy and never was.

By the way, your argument that anything with which you disagree is 'liberal indoctrination', is a weak argument, because I could make the very same claim, that anything I disagree with is conservative/libertarian indoctrination.

Irrelevance fallacy.

In other words, it's a meaningless argument, so much so I call it a non argument.

Yet you are arguing about it.