Opinion: good points
APP - The Well Behaved Zimmerman TRIAL Thread
- Thread starter BRUTALITOPS
- Start date
Opinion: good points
Fact: Before being punched and the beginning of the physical confrontation, Zimmerman claims that he looked for his cell phone on his right side, the same side where his gun was. He said he was afraid to identify himself at that point, for some reason, but he was going to take his attention off of Martin, to call 911.
Was he flashing his gun?
Opinion: His explanation for not identifying himself does not fit.
Opinion: I think another important inconsistency was his claims about where the confrontation started and where they ended up. I pointed this out weeks ago. 30 to 40 feet is a long way to roll.
Fact: If you watch walk through Zimmerman claimed to have stumbled towards Trayvon after being struck, not away. How did that happen? But in later taped interviews he claims to have fallen backwards which would have put him further away from the spot where he shot and killed Trayvon.
Fact: Trayvon dropped his phone just a few feet from his body and 30-40 feet away from where Zimmerman claims the confrontation began.
Opinion: The evidence clearly contradicts his story. Zimmerman lied about where the confrontation began. He lied because he WAS following Martin and he knew that fact was bad for his defense. These inconsistencies make all of his claims less credible because they were intentional.
Was he flashing his gun?
Opinion: His explanation for not identifying himself does not fit.
Opinion: I think another important inconsistency was his claims about where the confrontation started and where they ended up. I pointed this out weeks ago. 30 to 40 feet is a long way to roll.
Fact: If you watch walk through Zimmerman claimed to have stumbled towards Trayvon after being struck, not away. How did that happen? But in later taped interviews he claims to have fallen backwards which would have put him further away from the spot where he shot and killed Trayvon.
Fact: Trayvon dropped his phone just a few feet from his body and 30-40 feet away from where Zimmerman claims the confrontation began.
Opinion: The evidence clearly contradicts his story. Zimmerman lied about where the confrontation began. He lied because he WAS following Martin and he knew that fact was bad for his defense. These inconsistencies make all of his claims less credible because they were intentional.
Opinion:
It is the same thing I thought the other day when I saw the image of the crime scene.
lol...sorrry. I thought I was in the other thread. oops.
Note: I heard some pundit today say that if you're convinced Zimmy's guilty, you only hear what you want to hear. If you're convinced he's innocent, you only hear what you want to hear.
I predict a verdict late tomorrow.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/george-zimmerman-offers-to-just-plead-guilty-and-p,33087/
Opinion: I missed the beginning but I think O'Mara made some mistakes by focusing on some of the more outlandish claims of the defense.
That Zimmerman went to a fighting gym and never gained any skill. I don't buy it at all and it tells me the defense is willing to exagerate greatly.
That Martin stalked and pounced on Zimmerman. Why would he do that? Any evidence to support that? Even from Zimmerman? I don't buy it.
That he wishes the jury the opportunity to find Zimmerman completely innocent. Under the best opinion of Zimmerman, assuming he is truthful and his inconsistencies are insignificant, he is not because the dumbass should have identified himself and should have never left his vehicle.
His claim that Trayvon acted with ill will, spite and hate was a big mistake. If I believe that Trayvon's response to being stalked and confronted by a man that then started going for his pockets, is proof of ill will then guilty on murder 2 for Zimmerman.
He was deceptive about the reasonable doubt burden partly by using self defense in place of what the law actually says "justifiable use of deadly force." Obviously, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. The question is whether he was justified in the use of deadly force. Put that in the place of self defense on his chart and it changes things greatly. The jurors are going to read the actual law.
That Zimmerman went to a fighting gym and never gained any skill. I don't buy it at all and it tells me the defense is willing to exagerate greatly.
That Martin stalked and pounced on Zimmerman. Why would he do that? Any evidence to support that? Even from Zimmerman? I don't buy it.
That he wishes the jury the opportunity to find Zimmerman completely innocent. Under the best opinion of Zimmerman, assuming he is truthful and his inconsistencies are insignificant, he is not because the dumbass should have identified himself and should have never left his vehicle.
His claim that Trayvon acted with ill will, spite and hate was a big mistake. If I believe that Trayvon's response to being stalked and confronted by a man that then started going for his pockets, is proof of ill will then guilty on murder 2 for Zimmerman.
He was deceptive about the reasonable doubt burden partly by using self defense in place of what the law actually says "justifiable use of deadly force." Obviously, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself. The question is whether he was justified in the use of deadly force. Put that in the place of self defense on his chart and it changes things greatly. The jurors are going to read the actual law.
Opinion:
O'mara rocked.
Facts, evidence, or at the very least reasonable doubt is going to win the day, and no one can say there isn't reasonable doubt here unless you are just exceedingly stubbron.
MOM got a little bit of criticism in the first half for being professorial but I think he really needed to lay out the standards of proof, the burden the state has, and what reasonable doubt really means.
The second half though is when he went into beast mode. He went through witness by witness, summarizing everything they said (or, basically how they did not support the States case... that I found really powerful).
He laid out how the state presented no definitive evidence. He specifically pointed out all the times the prosecution has said "what if, could be, maybes" and compared them to what defense lawyers usually do.
Highlights:
- Bringing out the concrete at the end: "To say trayvon was unarmed is disgusting"
- The 4 minutes of silence showing how long trayvon had to get away implying he was lying in wait.
- Going through each witness, piece by piece.
- The animation could be a helpful tool but we'll see.
(string as an aside), you are seriously from the planet mars if you think a 2nd degree conviction is possible. Virtually no legal analysts are saying this is a realistic possibility at this point. The focus for most is manslaughter. You have drunk the kool-aid.
O'mara rocked.
Facts, evidence, or at the very least reasonable doubt is going to win the day, and no one can say there isn't reasonable doubt here unless you are just exceedingly stubbron.
MOM got a little bit of criticism in the first half for being professorial but I think he really needed to lay out the standards of proof, the burden the state has, and what reasonable doubt really means.
The second half though is when he went into beast mode. He went through witness by witness, summarizing everything they said (or, basically how they did not support the States case... that I found really powerful).
He laid out how the state presented no definitive evidence. He specifically pointed out all the times the prosecution has said "what if, could be, maybes" and compared them to what defense lawyers usually do.
Highlights:
- Bringing out the concrete at the end: "To say trayvon was unarmed is disgusting"
- The 4 minutes of silence showing how long trayvon had to get away implying he was lying in wait.
- Going through each witness, piece by piece.
- The animation could be a helpful tool but we'll see.
(string as an aside), you are seriously from the planet mars if you think a 2nd degree conviction is possible. Virtually no legal analysts are saying this is a realistic possibility at this point. The focus for most is manslaughter. You have drunk the kool-aid.
I missed it, hope to see it in replay.
Strawman. It's certainly possible, though, I don't think that is what you really meant. I did not say 2nd degree murder was likely or warranted. I don't believe his claims that Trayvon acted with hate, spite and ill will in defending himself against the aggressive behavior of Zimmerman. My point was that O'Mara was stupid to make that seem like such a trivial thing.
fair enough string
Opinion:
I laughed at how O'Mara told them not to use emotion, then turns around and tells them what a great jury they have been, lol, yeah, that's not appealing to emotion.
Opinion: On Guy's closing...
Bam, 2:01, to walk back a short distance to his vehicle! What the hell was he doing? Did he go back to look at the street sign a couple more times or what? This is a huge hole in his story. The physical evidence does not support Zimmerman's claims about how, where and, in relation to the end of the phone call with dispatch, when the confrontation began.
I think he shouldn't have been so strident on the screams. Who was screaming is unclear but not highly relevant.
The point about the earbuds and being on the cell when he was supposedly stalking and about to pounce on Zimmerman was very strong. The defense's narrative is absurd.
Zimmerman did not complain of a headache the next morning. While the severity of his injuries may not be relevant his credibility absolutely is. Where are all the wounds from the supposed onslaught of Martin's attack.
The point that Martin was owning him but then suddenly, from underneath and being pinned under Martin's legs, Zimmerman was able to get wrist control or whatever that bullshit manuever he claimed to have performed in the walktrough could be called and shot him clean in the chest is strong. The prosecution's claim is far more believable. They can't prove beyond all doubt but the defenses claims, whichever one we are supposed to believe, is highly dubious and not reasonable. Possible, I guess, if you fill in gaps for them and ignore the problems.
Bam, 2:01, to walk back a short distance to his vehicle! What the hell was he doing? Did he go back to look at the street sign a couple more times or what? This is a huge hole in his story. The physical evidence does not support Zimmerman's claims about how, where and, in relation to the end of the phone call with dispatch, when the confrontation began.
I think he shouldn't have been so strident on the screams. Who was screaming is unclear but not highly relevant.
The point about the earbuds and being on the cell when he was supposedly stalking and about to pounce on Zimmerman was very strong. The defense's narrative is absurd.
Zimmerman did not complain of a headache the next morning. While the severity of his injuries may not be relevant his credibility absolutely is. Where are all the wounds from the supposed onslaught of Martin's attack.
The point that Martin was owning him but then suddenly, from underneath and being pinned under Martin's legs, Zimmerman was able to get wrist control or whatever that bullshit manuever he claimed to have performed in the walktrough could be called and shot him clean in the chest is strong. The prosecution's claim is far more believable. They can't prove beyond all doubt but the defenses claims, whichever one we are supposed to believe, is highly dubious and not reasonable. Possible, I guess, if you fill in gaps for them and ignore the problems.
Opinion:
He was using his little bitty flashlight trying to find Trayvon so this one wouldn't get away.
Opinion: The thing is, I am not sure what really happened. But I am sure Zimmerman's claims are false and contrived to support his claims of self defense. He is lying. There is no doubt. Because of that I don't have a reasonable doubt about his claims that his acts were a justifiable use of force. If Zimmerman had used his right to remain silent he probably goes free.
Justice.
Grind, signing off.
Grind, signing off.
Fact: Zimmerman was found not guilty.
Fact: In finding justifiable homicide, the jury has found reason to believe that Trayvon may have been acting in a way that would constitute a forceable felony.
Fact: In finding justifiable homicide, the jury has found reason to believe that Trayvon may have been acting in a way that would constitute a forceable felony.