There Is Simply Not Enough Revenue. The Deficit Is Too Large. Debt Is Out Of Control.

[PoliTalker]

You can tell that capitalism is the problem because capitalism's little poster boy, Ronald Reagan tried to claim that government is the problem.

No!

The reality is that government is the solution to the problems caused by capitalism.

The government safety net is what people turn to after they have been ejected from meaningful participation in contributing to society by capitalism! You get laid off? You're going on unemployment. Industry moves out of your town, and UE runs out? You're going on the government safety net. It's that simple. Capitalism caused this problem, government is the solution.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Thanks for confirming you never had read the Constitution.

I've read the Constitution...and I suspect you have also.

I understood what I read. I suspect you do not have a clue.

 

[Sirthinksalot]

There has been no big increase in spending for something new. The only reason spending has increased is due to demand for existing programs within the safety net.

Capitalism is the problem. Capitalism seeks to reduce benefits and wages for work in - order to increase profit. That's what capitalism does. The result of that is more dependence upon the government safety net. That causes spending to go up.

Capitalism has a profit motive, which incentivizes hard work and risk taking, which leads to wealth creation. Socialism provides no incentive for hard work, since you get the same whether you work hard or behave like a lazy slug. And the result is poverty.

The same super-rich people who are pocketing the lion's share of the spoils of capitalism, the ones who are getting rich by taking things away from workers (such as collective bargaining,) are the ones who are responsible for the increased demand on the government safety net. They are the ones who should be paying for that.

This view is an illustration of people being more worried that someone else has more than you rather than being happy that you enjoy a high standard of living yourself.

We need to tax the rich more because it is the righteous and moral thing to do.

Do you think we need to tax the rich more because it's moral and righteous or because it leads to more prosperity? Either way, I think you're wrong.

 

[Gunny2009]

You can tell that capitalism is the problem because capitalism's little poster boy, Ronald Reagan tried to claim that government is the problem.

No!

The reality is that government is the solution to the problems caused by capitalism.

The government safety net is what people turn to after they have been ejected from meaningful participation in contributing to society by capitalism! You get laid off? You're going on unemployment. Industry moves out of your town, and UE runs out? You're going on the government safety net. It's that simple. Capitalism caused this problem, government is the solution.

The government is the problem because people like you and like Reagan actually (which is why he added 186% to the deficit), try to make the government the solution for every problem. That was never the purpose of government, it was never supposed to fix all our ills and keep us safe from ourselves.

Without capitalism there are no rich people to tax, then what is your solution?

 

[Gunny2009]

I've read the Constitution...and I suspect you have also.

I understood what I read. I suspect you do not have a clue.

Let's see...

you think that the Constitutions gives the government the power to do whatever it wants to do.

I think that the Constitution is there to limit what the government can do.

Yep, you are the moron with the 2nd grade level reading comprehension.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Let's see...

you think that the Constitutions gives the government the power to do whatever it wants to do.

Why do you make shit like that up?

Quote what I said (with a link) and deal with that. Only a fucking jerk-off makes stuff up and then argues against what has been made up.

I think that the Constitution is there to limit what the government can do.

I don't really give a rat's ass what you think.

If you are taking exception to something I said...quote what I said...and take exception.

Otherwise, continue to be a horse's ass. (Aside: You are very good at that.)

Yep, you are the moron with the 2nd grade level reading comprehension.

Grow the balls to quote something I said...and tell us why you take exception. We can discuss it. Or...continue to act the jerk-off. It is your choice.

 

[Gunny2009]

Why do you make shit like that up?

Quote what I said (with a link) and deal with that. Only a fucking jerk-off makes stuff up and then argues against what has been made up.

Here is your quote...On whatever the congress decides the government should be spending money for.

So, according to you, if Congress thinks we should be spending money on it, then it is ok.

that means the government can do what the hell ever it wants as long as congress agrees to spend money on it.

And you think that is what the Constitution states!

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Sirthinksalot,

Capitalism has a profit motive, which incentivizes hard work and risk taking, which leads to wealth creation.

STA: "Capitalism has a profit motive, which incentivizes hard work and risk taking, which leads to wealth creation" - (I say: ) - FOR THE RICH WHO HAVE CAPITAL TO RISK, and who take those risks. Capitalism strips wealth from those who simply wish to perform the work that enables capital to create wealth through risk taking. It provides them with just enough wealth to get them to perform the needed work. Then it tries to extract their wealth for every single thing they want or need in life.

Socialism provides no incentive for hard work, since you get the same whether you work hard or behave like a lazy slug. And the result is poverty.

Capitalism does provide a strong incentive for most workers to work hard - if they don't, they lose their job and have to go on government assistance, a less desirable situation for them. Socialism is the part of our economy which eases the pain of poverty caused by capitalism seeking to extract the wealth of every individual and gather as much of it as possible for the most powerful.

Do you think we need to tax the rich more because it's moral and righteous or because it leads to more prosperity? Either way, I think you're wrong.

I already said it is moral and righteous to tax the rich more. I also believe it will lead to more prosperity. Here's why. The GDP is essentially the sum of all transactions, exchanges of money for assets, products and/or services. Capitalism with taxation too low and government debt out of control, leads to extreme wealth inequality. Most of the wealth ends up in the hands of proportionally fewer and fewer individuals. Extreme wealth inequality reduces the proportional amount of wealth available for circulation in daily consumerism, thus reducing the GDP. Greater wealth distribution, a more equitable distribution of wealth leads to a greater proportion of individuals having access to greater amounts of money they are able to exchange for assets, products and/or services. That results in a greater GDP.

Having the right balance of capitalism and socialism leads to a higher GDP.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Here is your quote...On whatever the congress decides the government should be spending money for.

So, according to you, if Congress thinks we should be spending money on it, then it is ok.

that means the government can do what the hell ever it wants as long as congress agrees to spend money on it.

And you think that is what the Constitution states!

First...you get the opportunity to acknowledge that "you think that the Constitutions gives the government the power to do whatever it wants to do" is NOT what I said...or inferred.

What I said in response to your question holds.

Here is your question: "Based on the US Constitution, what should the Fed Govt be spending money on?"

Here is my answer: "On whatever the congress decides the government should be spending money for."

And my answer is right on the button...and my answer differs substantially from that bullshit you made up.

Now...show some spine...show that you have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that I did not say or infer what you suggest I did.

C'mon!

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Clearly we need more war and military spending to bleed down anything still left that represents an investment in sociey and we the people.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Gunny2009,

The government is the problem because people like you and like Reagan actually (which is why he added 186% to the deficit), try to make the government the solution for every problem.

Not true. Absolutely not true. Simply false. I know of no liberal who says "government should be the solution to every problem." That is propaganda made up by the right. Please quote a liberal saying exactly that? Liberals don't say that. It's spin. It is a total exaggeration. That's a real problem for many conservatives who simply refuse to even agree on basic facts, and prefer to instead think only in terms of narratives made up by the right about the left.

That was never the purpose of government, it was never supposed to fix all our ills and keep us safe from ourselves.

Congratulations. You've knocked down the straw man you put up.

Without capitalism there are no rich people to tax, then what is your solution?

Please quote me where I said we should have no capitalism?

Whoops!

You can't. That's because you are not admitting the basic fact that I never said we should not have capitalism. I swear. I talk about some of the problems associated with capitalism, and what we can do to offset them, even mentioning specifically that government can offer a solution, and you ignore that, pretend I never said it, and make up another narrative that you believe I said, and attack that. That's called straw manism.

 

[Gunny2009]

First...you get the opportunity to acknowledge that "you think that the Constitutions gives the government the power to do whatever it wants to do" is NOT what I said...or inferred.

What I said in response to your question holds.

Here is your question: "Based on the US Constitution, what should the Fed Govt be spending money on?"

Here is my answer: "On whatever the congress decides the government should be spending money for."

And my answer is right on the button...and my answer differs substantially from that bullshit you made up.

Now...show some spine...show that you have the ethical wherewithal to acknowledge that I did not say or infer what you suggest I did.

C'mon!

If the Govt can spend money on whatever it wants to spend money on, then it can do whatever it wants. Pretty simple.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello Gunny2009,



Not true. Absolutely not true. Simply false. I know of no liberal who says "government should be the solution to every problem." That is propaganda made up by the right. Please quote a liberal saying exactly that? Liberals don't say that. It's spin. It is a total exaggeration. That's a real problem for many conservatives who simply refuse to even agree on basic facts, and prefer to instead think only in terms of narratives made up by the right about the left.



Congratulations. You've knocked down the straw man you put up.



Please quote me where I said we should have no capitalism?

Whoops!

You can't. That's because you are not admitting the basic fact that I never said we should not have capitalism. I swear. I talk about some of the problems associated with capitalism, and what we can do to offset them, even mentioning specifically that government can offer a solution, and you ignore that, pretend I never said it, and make up another narrative that you believe I said, and attack that. That's called straw manism.

That can become a habit...

...which is what it has become in Gunny's case.

 

[Gunny2009]

Hello Gunny2009,



Not true. Absolutely not true. Simply false. I know of no liberal who says "government should be the solution to every problem." That is propaganda made up by the right. Please quote a liberal saying exactly that? Liberals don't say that. It's spin. It is a total exaggeration. That's a real problem for many conservatives who simply refuse to even agree on basic facts, and prefer to instead think only in terms of narratives made up by the right about the left.

Nobody ever says those words, but they also never have found a problem that government was not the solution for.

 

[Nordberg]

When Ike was president, corporations were paying 30 percent of tax revenue collected. Now under 8. The wealthy have had their taxes slashed over and over, Congress has installed endless tax loopholes and breaks for those poor picked on people at the top. Yet we cranked up military spending over and over. We have a revenue problem. Of course spending more on the military then the next 10 countries combined, guarantees the internal programs will be crippled. We have been blowing money on the military for 3 decades. Sadly, if you build that milirtary, you will use it. We have 800 military bases around the world.

 

[Heff]

The only one stopping you from giving your money to the government is yourself.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Frank,

That can become a habit...

...which is what it has become in Gunny's case.

That's easier for us to see it than it is for Gunny2009. But we always need to be wary that we don't do the same thing. It is easier for Gunny2009 to see it when we do it.

You had your own little faux pas in this discussion, too, ya know.

You and Gunny2009 essentially interpret the Constitution differently. But instead of arguing the meaning, the two of you were trying to establish (without any actual specific knowledge of it) that the other did not read the Constitution. Which is absurd, since both of you were arguing it's meaning. That was merely the warm-up act for the subsequent name-calling as the misunderstandings escalated. It didn't have to be that way. Nobody learned anything, and the whole scenario will be repeated. But at least you got a little endorphin rush out of it. That was the point, right?

 

[Heff]

When Ike was president, corporations were paying 30 percent of tax revenue collected. Now under 8. The wealthy have had their taxes slashed over and over, Congress has installed endless tax loopholes and breaks for those poor picked on people at the top. Yet we cranked up military spending over and over. We have a revenue problem. Of course spending more on the military then the next 10 countries combined, guarantees the internal programs will be crippled. We have been blowing money on the military for 3 decades. Sadly, if you build that milirtary, you will use it. We have 800 military bases around the world.

Up until Trump the US had the highest combined statutory corporate income tax rate among the OECD nations at 38.9 percent, 15 percentage points higher than the OECD average. Look how well that worked.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Hello Frank,



That's easier for us to see it than it is for Gunny2009. But we always need to be wary that we don't do the same thing. It is easier for Gunny2009 to see it when we do it.

You had your own little faux pas in this discussion, too, ya know.

You and Gunny2009 essentially interpret the Constitution differently. But instead of arguing the meaning, the two of you were trying to establish (without any actual specific knowledge of it) that the other did not read the Constitution. Which is absurd, since both of you were arguing it's meaning. That was merely the warm-up act for the subsequent name-calling as the misunderstandings escalated. It didn't have to be that way. Nobody learned anything, and the whole scenario will be repeated. But at least you got a little endorphin rush out of it. That was the point, right?

A little faux pas of your own here, Poli.

At no point have I ever suggested that Gunny has NOT read the Constitution. In fact, I specifically said that I think he HAS READ IT.

I just don't think that he has read it with comprehension...which is one way of saying that we are interpreting what we see differently.

My point is that if congress decides we are going to spend money on "x"...we are. (Granted the SCOUTUS could declare it unconstitutional)...although I would love to see an example of that.

He wanted to "interpret" that to mean I was saying that the congress could do whatever it wanted.

Strawman.

Bullshit.

Habit.

He's got it.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Gunny2009,

Nobody ever says those words, but they also never have found a problem that government was not the solution for.

Not true!

That is a total exaggeration. There are myriads of problems we do not expect government to solve. Mostly little things. Capitalism comes up with very creative solutions to problems all the time. Wanna hear some music? But you forgot your boom box. Hmmm. That's a problem. Capitalism to the rescue! Whip our your phone. In a few clicks you have music.

You gotta watch it with believing those right slanted sound bytes.