They claim the American left don’t believe in God.

Cypress said:
It's a very simple Yes/No/I don't know question.
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it is not though. It is a flawed question.

To say yes 'affirms' a belief in a god by default. To say no 'affirms a belief no gods' exist' or arguably could be said to contain a position 'that i believe gods exist but were not " involved in the REALITY of existence".

I do not hold any of those positions and to demand i fit in to one is wrong and no one can make another person fit into a belief no matter how much they demand it.
 
Ross Dolan said:
IF a creator god exists (something we do not know)...then EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS...is evidence of that god.


IF A CREATOR GOD EXISTS...THEN EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS IS EVIDENCE OF THAT GOD.

Totally logical. The problem is that we do not know if any gods exist.

That does not prevent religionists from blindly guessing that at least one does...nor prevent people who describe themselves as atheists from blindly guessing that none do...or that it is more likely that none do than that at least one does.

Always pay attention to the predicates of questions. Otherwise you screw up the way you are screwing up.
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False.

this..

"...IF a creator god exists (something we do not know)...then EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS...is evidence of that god..."

is simply a statement you are claiming to be evidence. it is circular and not logical.


I can change it and you cannot prove my statement wrong and thus my statement is every bit as valid as proof...

'If a Spaghetti monster exists (something we do not know)... then EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS... is evidence of that Spaghetti monster..."


Ross substantiate (do not just make another claim) why your word 'god' there has any more proof value than my Spaghetti monster or any XYZ we could put in there?

Speak very specifically to what makes your God supposition correct and my XYZ wrong.
 
QP! said:
it is not though. It is a flawed question.

To say yes 'affirms' a belief in a god by default. To say no 'affirms a belief no gods' exist' or arguably could be said to contain a position 'that i believe gods exist but were not " involved in the REALITY of existence".

I do not hold any of those positions and to demand i fit in to one is wrong and no one can make another person fit into a belief no matter how much they demand it.
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I don't see any meaningful difference between 'I don't believe dieties exist" and "there is no evidence deities exist ".

All of our beliefs are based on evidence, lack of evidence, logical inference, or intuition.
 
FastLane said:
Are you suggesting it does not have a COMPLETE KJV in it along with the study section? Are you aware there are hundreds of Bibles that have extra study sections with them. I have a couple myself. Everyone that I have seen clearly labels the KJV and the study sections separately.
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It's not a suggestion, it's a fact.

Search Assist

No, the Trump Bible, also known as the God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, does not contain the entire King James Version; it includes some texts that are deliberately incomplete. Additionally, it features American documents like the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, but it is missing amendments 11-27.
 
christiefan915 said:
It's not a suggestion, it's a fact.

Search Assist

No, the Trump Bible, also known as the God Bless the U.S.A. Bible, does not contain the entire King James Version; it includes some texts that are deliberately incomplete. Additionally, it features American documents like the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, but it is missing amendments 11-27.
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AI Overview



Yes, the "God Bless the USA" Bible, often called the Trump Bible, contains a complete King James Version (KJV) of the Christian Bible, plus patriotic American documents like the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and the Pledge of Allegiance, along with lyrics to Lee Greenwood's song
. It's a large-print edition designed for easy reading, combining religious scripture with foundational American texts.

Checkmate
 
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Cypress said:
I don't see any meaningful difference between 'I don't believe dieties exist" and "there is no evidence deities exist ".
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i don't hold a "belief" either way that a deity exists or not as i do not form such "beliefs" without evidence.

To say " i demand you form a belief on XYZ" whether it be gods, aliens or other when the person says he has no data points to do so, is simply absurd.

Before i form a BELIEF i want to see some evidence, one way or the other that leads me to a belief, and until then i will remain agnostic or open to being convinced in either direction.

Again to say you must be part of 'team believers' or 'team non believers' is fine for those who fit those two boxes but to DENY a third box can exist "I have not yet come to a point of any belief" ... is absurd.
 
QP! said:
You just simply do not understand the question you asked then.

When you start with "Are there any XYZ..."

And i do not have a belief in XYZ whether it be gods or aliens or a Conspiracy theory, it is absolutely the proper answer for me to stop you at that point there and say "i do not hold a belief in XYZ' as that answer ANY AND ALL questions you might ask after.

If i do not believe 'the earth is flat' and i stop you there you wanting to me to opine on 1 or 10 examples you want to follow up with CHANGES NOTHING, as my answer stops at me not holding that belief and thus the examples are irrelevant. You can simply cut and paste my first reply to all of them.
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ARE THERE ANY GODS OR ARE THERE NO GODS?

My answer is a clear: I DO NOT KNOW...AND I CANNOT MAKE A MEANINGFUL GUESS.

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO THE QUESTION...THAT IS ACTUALLY AN ANSWER RATHER THAN AN OBVIOUS DIVERSION?
 
@Cypress

if before it was proven the world was spherical and some believed it was flat and others believed it was spherical do you think it would be wrong if there was a person who said 'i do not hold either of those beliefs... i have not formed an opinion as i have not seen evidence' ... or do you think it is wrong for that person to not declare they are in 'team flat earth' or 'team spherical earth', regardless?

What @Ross Dolan is demanding is that i declare one of the two positions even though i hold neither.
 
Ross Dolan said:
ARE THERE ANY GODS OR ARE THERE NO GODS?

My answer is a clear: I DO NOT KNOW...AND I CANNOT MAKE A MEANINGFUL GUESS.

WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO THE QUESTION...THAT IS ACTUALLY AN ANSWER RATHER THAN AN OBVIOUS DIVERSION?
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i want you to answer my question first, as this conversation is not a one way street.

Substantiate how your 'proof' point is any more meaningful than my Spaghetti Monster (use XYZ if you do not like the S.Monster) example.

I need to understand the logic you see behind your proof and how it holds up to know if you are even a rational person or just irrational.


You claim that is a proof so break down, very specifically how your example succeeds as a proof and yet mine fails?
 
QP! said:
Ross Dolan : QP i am going to give you 10 examples of why i believe in conspiracy theory XYZ and want to know if you believe in XYZ.

QP : Not necessary. I do not believe in XYZ and that is my answer.

Ross Dolan : Waaaaa do not say that. Let me give my 10 examples and DO NOT answer you do not believe in XYZ as an answer and instead engage what i raise.

QP : but if i do not believe in XYZ that answers it

Ross : Waaaa you are not playing by my rules. I DEMAND you play by my rules.
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That is so wrong-headed, it defies imagination.

Print this discussion out and take it to the nearest university to you...ask to speak with a professor of logic. explain to him that you are the QP...and then ask for an evaluation of your responses.

He/she will tell you that you are way, way out of your depth in the discussion.

Or don't.

Let us continue.

Here is a perfectly logical question:

Are there any gods involved in the REALITY of existence?

The answer is either a YES, NO, or I DO NOT KNOW.

You apparently are terrified of giving one of those answers.

Not sure why.

Give it another try.
 
QP! said:
i want you to answer my question first, as this conversation is not a one way street.

Substantiate how your 'proof' point is any more meaningful than my Spaghetti Monster (use XYZ if you do not like the S.Monster) example.

I need to understand the logic you see behind your proof and how it holds up to know if you are even a rational person or just irrational.


You claim that is a proof so break down, very specifically how your example succeeds as a proof and yet mine fails?
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I have answered your questions as best as I can understand them.

But they are almost unintelligible.

Try rewording them.

AND ANSWER MY QUESTION.
 
FastLane said:
AI Overview



Yes, the "God Bless the USA" Bible, often called the Trump Bible, contains a complete King James Version (KJV) of the Christian Bible, plus patriotic American documents like the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and the Pledge of Allegiance, along with lyrics to Lee Greenwood's song
. It's a large-print edition designed for easy reading, combining religious scripture with foundational American texts.

Checkmate
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My link says no, your linkless comment says yes. I call that stalemate, not checkmate.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Great for selling food and booze! :clink:

What's fascinating to me is that Cinco de Mayo is a bigger holiday in the US than in Mexico due to strong commercialization.

www.britannica.com

Cinco de Mayo | Meaning, History, Food, Traditions, & Facts | Britannica

Cinco de Mayo is a holiday celebrated in parts of Mexico and the United States in honor of a military victory in 1862 over the French forces of Napoleon III. It should not be confused with Mexican Independence Day, which falls on September 16 and was established in 1810.
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com

Celebrations in Mexico and the United States​

The day is celebrated in the state of Puebla with parades, speeches, and reenactments of the 1862 battle, though it is not much noticed in most of the rest of the country. In the mid-20th-century United States, the celebration of Cinco de Mayo became among Mexican immigrants and those of Mexican descent a way of encouraging pride in their Mexican heritage. U.S. cities with notable Cinco de Mayo festivities include Los Angeles, Denver, and Washington, D.C.
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We saw this video in one of my Anthropology courses. It's hilarious.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p43hyyfQNU
 
QP! said:
@Cypress

if before it was proven the world was spherical and some believed it was flat and others believed it was spherical do you think it would be wrong if there was a person who said 'i do not hold either of those beliefs... i have not formed an opinion as i have not seen evidence' ... or do you think it is wrong for that person to not declare they are in 'team flat earth' or 'team spherical earth', regardless?

What @Ross Dolan is demanding is that i declare one of the two positions even though i hold neither.
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If you simply haven't seen enough evidence for a deity, God, or universal spirit, but are open to patiently waiting to see if more evidence comes to light, that's agnosticism, not atheism.

Agnostics have not conclusively decided one way or the other, and by temperament they would be waiting for more evidence to show up.
 
Ross Dolan said:
That is so wrong-headed, it defies imagination.

Print this discussion out and take it to the nearest university to you...ask to speak with a professor of logic. explain to him that you are the QP...and then ask for an evaluation of your responses.

He/she will tell you that you are way, way out of your depth in the discussion.

Or don't.

Let us continue.

Here is a perfectly logical question:

Are there any gods involved in the REALITY of existence?

The answer is either a YES, NO, or I DO NOT KNOW.

You apparently are terrified of giving one of those answers.

Not sure why.

Give it another try.
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Ross i will do you one better.

There are several debate forums, some on University sites and others in other spaces.

I will let you chose one that we agree to and we can post your question with your list of 3 answers and then me saying none of those answers fit me correctly and then give my 4th and ask that forum to vote on whether my answer is appropriate or not and if it fully addresses the question asked.

If the respondents do not overwhelming side with me (75% or more) i will put up whatever sig and Av you want (within the rules here) and if they do side with me, then you give me your Av and Sig. We will link to that poll in the other forum here.

You on?
 
TOP said:
I do.
It is a blessing tonot be one of those who have thrown away their faith , and now believe in nothing...
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Sanctimonious Sam rides again!

If it's a "blessing" to have whatever faith you claim, why do you not act like it, Toxic? No one reading your snark and spite and venom would see a Christian in your words. Just an unhappy, bitter, self-congratulatory bigot that no one would want to emulate.
 
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@Ross Dolan ,

here is what we would post...

----------
Question:
Are there any gods involved in the REALITY of existence?

Answer that question. Just answer it. There are three choices:

1) Yes there is at least one GOD involved.
2) No, there are no gods involved.
3) Beats the shit out of me.

Which is it?


--------
My Reply:

"I would not answer with any of those and would say 4 - there is simply zero evidence for XYZ or any other god, so for me to say "yes these 'gods' were involved, or 'no these gods were not involved', would not be a proper reply for me"

-----


We post the above and accept the poll result and anything less than 75% in my favor we call a win for you.
 
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