This is how we will defeat Trump

Marxist Mason said:
You're on ignore USF,but fuck off
Click to expand...

NO!!

095ea45e2311cd42867eb1923bf858c3.gif
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
That's not how capitalism works, or industrialization in general.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but where is it written that we are a strictly capitalist nation? The Constitution doesn't say that. That is only the desire of the greediest capitalists. It is not a view shared by all Americans. Other people get a say in things besides just the most powerful.

Woko Haram said:
Wealth accumulates at the top through a combination of factors, and some of it is a matter of merit and work ethic. Very few wealthy people inherit their wealth. They usually work long hours to reach the executive level, and they often continue to work long hours at that level.

There are countries like Germany that are more worker oriented through union like structures, but a lot of the reason for that has less to do with law and more to do with culture. Also, up until relatively recently, Germany was comparably homogeneous to America in terms of culture. Germany has always had multiple cultural groups, but said groups have historically had a lot in common with each other in terms of priorities and values. America is very heterogeneous, and while many industries and companies are unionized, these unions don't typically function the same way that Germany's worker groups do.

Also, a lot of German companies are much more democratic than ours, but this wasn't due to law either, it was due to cultural preferences.

In short, government can only do so much in terms of changing work culture in America. For them to function properly for the long term, cultural changes have to be organic rather than state imposed.

You'll also notice that the housing market in a lot of European countries that are more worker oriented doesn't exactly involve most people owning houses. In a lot of Europe, people rent their entire lives. Housing is substantially more expensive in much of Europe than it is here, because a lot of these populations are highly urbanized. America is comparably suburban and rural. For most areas, this makes housing comparably affordable here.

Availability of land and zoning regulations have the most effect on housing affordability. What the average worker makes is actually less significant overall, unless there is a major increase or decrease in pay.

What an executive makes compared to the average worker is far less significant.

Overall, all that more state involvement in business will do is harm the creation of small businesses while encouraging more corporations to increase production elsewhere.
Click to expand...

European executives earn 15 - 20 times what the average worker earns.

American executives earn 400 times what the average worker earns.

Government isn't telling us to do anything. We tell our government what to do. If we the people want changes, then we can make them happen. All we have to do is band together and make that happen. If you want to keep protecting the powerful that's your choice. I think they have all the resources at their own disposal and they don't need any help. I am one of the people; and I am in it for the people.

We already have a hybrid economy with elements of both capitalism and socialism. All we the people wish to do is tweak the balance for the benefit of the many not the few.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
That's assuming that 4 year colleges are the only option.

In an environment where 4 year colleges have fewer applicants, more students enroll in community college. And if they pick the right programs, they'll end up with better paying jobs straight out of college than they would have gotten with various 4-year academic degrees.

In short, we should be encouraging more people to enter various blue collar trades. Not everyone is an academic, and frankly, you only need so many academics to run a society.
Click to expand...

That view mirrors ancient societies in which it was illegal to teach the common serfs to read or write. Keep 'em dumb and the elites can control them.

Woko Haram said:
You need far more tradesmen to keep things running properly, which is why we keep having to import tradespeople from other countries. We wouldn't have a shortage in plumbing under the approach I suggest.

Another advantage is that the general public would have far less debt to pay off.
Click to expand...

We didn't build an advanced industrialized society by keeping the masses dumb. That was only possible with some higher learning.

There is vast evidence we have been visited from space and continue to be. The visitors have seemingly impossible craft showing a mastery of physics and materials that we don't even understand. They chose not to contact us nor establish any sort of relationship. But they continue to come back and observe us. And they seem to be interested in our water. There is much we do not know. We simply cannot have enough smart people working on advances for the future. All this quibbling about who gets how much of the pie is small potatoes compared to planetary considerations. Education is the key. We need to quit doling it out like it's a big secret and open the flood gates. The more smart people we have, the quicker hatred vanishes. We are playing with fire by keeping so many people so dumb.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
Crashes never work out well, bailout or no bailout. The difference is that bailouts send banks the message that they can be risky with fewer consequences. Without bailouts, there is reason to be more cautious.

The funny thing about all this is that the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 as a reaction to the crashes and "panics" that happened in the late 1800s and in 1907. Yet, the crash in 1929 still happened. There is a long legacy of government creating ever more controlling entities in banking and ever more controlling laws that still don't prevent massive crashes from occurring and usually now result in bailouts.

Laws and the Federal Reserve have resulted in longer periods of stability, but they have also resulted in massive crashes. Depending on how you look at it, the crash in 2008 is comparable to the one in 1929. Obviously, the short term repercussions were not as severe, but it does beg the question of what the long term holds.

There is a very clear indication now that Wall Street only has to worry so much about risky decisions. Ultimately, if the market crashes again, the ones making these decisions won't suffer, but the families invested in the affected financial assets certainly will.
Click to expand...

This theory fails to definitively show cause and effect.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
A lot of people were at fault. Plenty of them were from each side. But yes, one of the only guys that did go to jail was Bernie Madoff, but he made the mistake of ripping off a lot of wealthy and powerful people. If he had only ripped off poor people or working class people, he wouldn't have been charged.
Click to expand...

I don't think he had anything to do with the crash of 08.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woko Haram,

Yeah, but where is it written that we are a strictly capitalist nation? The Constitution doesn't say that. That is only the desire of the greediest capitalists. It is not a view shared by all Americans. Other people get a say in things besides just the most powerful.
Click to expand...

My point was that, even in the most socialistic capitalisms (like in Scandinavia), there are elite wealthy. There are also elite wealthy in mostly socialist systems and in Communist systems. So, to expand on what I said earlier, it's not even just capitalism that works this way. There will always be rich and poor, and no amount of government intervention will change that.

PoliTalker said:
European executives earn 15 - 20 times what the average worker earns.

American executives earn 400 times what the average worker earns.

Government isn't telling us to do anything. We tell our government what to do. If we the people want changes, then we can make them happen. All we have to do is band together and make that happen. If you want to keep protecting the powerful that's your choice. I think they have all the resources at their own disposal and they don't need any help. I am one of the people; and I am in it for the people.

We already have a hybrid economy with elements of both capitalism and socialism. All we the people wish to do is tweak the balance for the benefit of the many not the few.
Click to expand...

If it weren't for the fact that the most interventionist local systems are usually the most corrupt, I might agree with you. Everything I've seen shows that, the more the government gets involved (particularly when it claims to support the people), the more it usually just favors certain corporations over others and certain individuals over others. Cronyism is rampant among the most active governments.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woko Haram,



That view mirrors ancient societies in which it was illegal to teach the common serfs to read or write. Keep 'em dumb and the elites can control them.
Click to expand...

You seem to be associating trades with being dumb. That's far from the case. Also, Germany does something similar to what I'm describing, except they take it a step further. They separate students by their strengths at around the equivalent of 8th grade. This allows each student to either specialize in practical skills and trades or in academia. It generally prevents students from focusing on things that they would be less adept at while helping them maximize their potential in their strengths.


PoliTalker said:
We didn't build an advanced industrialized society by keeping the masses dumb. That was only possible with some higher learning.

There is vast evidence we have been visited from space and continue to be. The visitors have seemingly impossible craft showing a mastery of physics and materials that we don't even understand. They chose not to contact us nor establish any sort of relationship. But they continue to come back and observe us. And they seem to be interested in our water. There is much we do not know. We simply cannot have enough smart people working on advances for the future. All this quibbling about who gets how much of the pie is small potatoes compared to planetary considerations. Education is the key. We need to quit doling it out like it's a big secret and open the flood gates. The more smart people we have, the quicker hatred vanishes. We are playing with fire by keeping so many people so dumb.
Click to expand...

If you're worried about the quality of education among the public, the quickest way to fix that is to open up the market more. Too many areas are limited to having subpar public education systems. With more private participation, education quality improves. Thankfully, charter schools are starting to improve many education markets.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woko Haram,


This theory fails to definitively show cause and effect.
Click to expand...

If you're referring to my initial statement concerning bailouts, think about it logically. If you're an investment banking executive and you've found a new way to capitalize on a specific market that is risky but has high profit potential, would you be more inclined to take the associated risks with or without government intervention in the event of a crash?

With the precedent being set that the government will bailout big banks in the worst case scenario, even major risks seem less hazardous overall.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
My point was that, even in the most socialistic capitalisms (like in Scandinavia), there are elite wealthy. There are also elite wealthy in mostly socialist systems and in Communist systems. So, to expand on what I said earlier, it's not even just capitalism that works this way. There will always be rich and poor, and no amount of government intervention will change that.
Click to expand...

Totally agreed. But how extreme will the wealth inequality be? That's the real question.


If it weren't for the fact that the most interventionist local systems are usually the most corrupt, I might agree with you. Everything I've seen shows that, the more the government gets involved (particularly when it claims to support the people), the more it usually just favors certain corporations over others and certain individuals over others. Cronyism is rampant among the most active governments.[/QUOTE]

Which is why we need to pass the Anti-Corruption Act
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Woko Haram said:
You seem to be associating trades with being dumb. That's far from the case. Also, Germany does something similar to what I'm describing, except they take it a step further. They separate students by their strengths at around the equivalent of 8th grade. This allows each student to either specialize in practical skills and trades or in academia. It generally prevents students from focusing on things that they would be less adept at while helping them maximize their potential in their strengths.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good system to me. Germany also has free college for those who can get the grades. Rising to the top in Germany requires more of 'being able to cut it' than having a rich benefactor to bankroll you or going deeply into debt.

Woko Haram said:
If you're worried about the quality of education among the public, the quickest way to fix that is to open up the market more. Too many areas are limited to having subpar public education systems. With more private participation, education quality improves. Thankfully, charter schools are starting to improve many education markets.
Click to expand...

The only reason public schools are failing is because they have been neglected by racists who have abandoned the concept. There is no underlying principle which means a public education has to be a bad one. I can certainly state that from experience. If public schools are failing it is not due to the concept but the implementation. Where public schools are failing the answer is not going private. It is to reassess how they are being run.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woko Haram,



Totally agreed. But how extreme will the wealth inequality be? That's the real question.


If it weren't for the fact that the most interventionist local systems are usually the most corrupt, I might agree with you. Everything I've seen shows that, the more the government gets involved (particularly when it claims to support the people), the more it usually just favors certain corporations over others and certain individuals over others. Cronyism is rampant among the most active governments.
Click to expand...

Which is why we need to pass the Anti-Corruption Act[/QUOTE]

We already have the worst wealth gap in history, above the Gilded Age. It is getting worse by day and Trump's policies make it worse. His next budget signals what he plans of taking from the people and giving to the top 1 percent. cutting SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Food Stamps tells you what he thinks of the people. Another tax cut for the wealthy is just so overdue.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Woko Haram,

Totally agreed. But how extreme will the wealth inequality be? That's the real question.
Click to expand...

Wealth inequality is usually a lot less important to focus on as compared with how the average worker is faring. If economic mobility is high, then it doesn't matter how much wealth the top 1% has. In short, we should be focusing on economic mobility.


PoliTalker said:
Which is why we need to pass the Anti-Corruption Act
Click to expand...

I like the overall look of this idea, but I'll have to examine it closer to see if it would be useful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top