Time for the Anti-Immigrant crowd to put up or shut up!

[Canceled.LTroll.8]

I’ve spoken with representatives from a growing coalition of labor unions and business groups, immigrant advocates and community organizations, law enforcement, local government, all who recognize the importance of immigration reform, and I’ve met with leaders from America’s religious communities, people of different faiths and beliefs, some liberal, some conservative, who nonetheless share a sense of urgency; who understand that fixing our broken immigration system is not only a political issue, not just an economic issue, but a moral imperative as well.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.17]

You lie!

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

If such were the case they wouldn't come here. Not only are they able to feed themselves, but they have enough left over to send money to people in Mexico too.

don't forget the free care at hospitals fobbed off onto the american public. That's an incentive. No doubt it's good deal. that doesn't make it fair to americans. The companies win both ways. Tax paying americans lose both ways.

globalization zealotry = fascism.

 

[Timshel]

It's part of the equation. Companies generally attempt to set a price that covers cost. So saying it's not a factor is a ludicrous absurdity.

This doesn't mean costs are not a factor in determiing price.

Demand in food is relatively inelastic, i.e. we all gotta eat. So they'll stay in business. And more americans will be afforded a livable wage.

Companies decide whether to enter or leave a market based on cost vs price. If the margin is high they will enter knowing they can set a lower price and still earn a nice profit. That will eventually lead to a lower price that is in line with cost.

If costs increase due to market factors or government attempts to artifically increase costs, then that does not mean you can just jack up your price. Most people will not buy a carrot at $6. Since carrots rot sellers cannot just sit on their product and wait for a buyer. They will sell at whatever price allows them to move their inventory and minimize their losses.

After the inventory rots or sells there will be companies will leave the market since demand is not high enough to sell at a profitable price. This will reduce supply until it is in line with demand at a profitable price. There are likely some people who will pay $6 for a carrot.

As I said, there will be few carrots soldl or sellers of carrots.

Food, in general, is inelastic. But not every food item is inelastic. So, as I said, there will still be demand for the staples. Those items that are not labor intensive will not see as severe a spike in price and they may still move.

The end result will be that the consumer will spend more on food and have less diversity in his/her diet. There will be fewer people employed in agriculture and fewer farmers.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Companies decide whether to enter or leave a market based on cost vs price. If the margin is high they will enter knowing they can set a lower price and still earn a nice profit. That will eventually lead to to a lower price that is in line with cost.

That's why cost matters. doy. You're a douche. Do you think you look smart?

If costs increase to market factors or government attempts to artifically increase costs, then that does not mean you can just jack up your price. Most people will not buy a carrot at $6. Since carrots rot sellers cannot just sit on their product and wait for a buyer. They will sell at whatever price allows them to move their inventory and minimize their losses.

After the inventory rots or sells there will be companies will leave the market since demand is not high enough to sell at a profitable price. This will reduce supply until it is in line with demand at a profitable price. There are likely some people who will pay $6 for a carrot.

As I said, there will be few carrots soldl or sellers of carrots.

Food, in general, is elastic. But not every food item is elastic. So, as I said, there will still be demand for the staples. Those items that are not labor intensive will not see as severe a spike in price and they may still move.

The end result will be that the consumer will spend more on food and have less diversity in his/her diet. There will be fewer people employed in agriculture and fewer farmers.

Cost will be passed on for sure. But your scenario is way out of proportion. The sky will not fall. People have to eat, and will pay a lot of money for food. Have you ever been to a Whole Foods?
It's more inelastic than elastic.

But you did finally admit costs matter. you're a joke.

 

[Timshel]

Venezuela offers an example of these basic concepts, though somewhat in the reverse. They have artificially reduced the price on many food items. The result is no one is willing to sell at that price.

Price is determined by market forces of supply and demand, which ultimately rest on scarcity and utility to the consumer. One cannot raise prices just because of higher costs anymore than one can lower costs due to lower prices. When the government starts dicking around with price the result is less trade in the good.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.8]

To begin with, our borders have been porous for decades.

Obviously, the problem is greatest along our Southern border, but it’s not restricted to that part of the country.

In fact, because we don’t do a very good job of tracking who comes in and out of the country as visitors, large numbers avoid immigration laws simply by overstaying their visas.

The result is an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

The overwhelming majority of these men and women are simply seeking a better life for themselves and their children.

Many settle in low-wage sectors of the economy; they work hard, they save, they stay out of trouble.

But, because they live in the shadows, they’re vulnerable to unscrupulous businesses who pay them less than the minimum wage or violate worker safety rules, thereby putting companies who follow those rules, and Americans who rightly demand the minimum wage or overtime, at an unfair disadvantage.

Crimes go unreported as victims and witnesses fear coming forward. And this makes it harder for the police to catch violent criminals and keep neighborhoods safe, and billions in tax revenue are lost each year because many undocumented workers are paid under the table.

More fundamentally, the presence of so many illegal immigrants makes a mockery of all those who are going through the process of immigrating legally.

Indeed, after years of patchwork fixes and ill-conceived revisions, the legal immigration system is as broken as the borders.

Backlogs and bureaucracy means the process can take years.

While an applicant waits for approval, he or she is often forbidden from visiting the United States, which means even husbands and wives may be forced to spend many years apart.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.17]

You lie!

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

To begin with, our borders have been porous for decades.

Obviously, the problem is greatest along our Southern border, but it’s not restricted to that part of the country.

In fact, because we don’t do a very good job of tracking who comes in and out of the country as visitors, large numbers avoid immigration laws simply by overstaying their visas.

The result is an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

The overwhelming majority of these men and women are simply seeking a better life for themselves and their children.

Many settle in low-wage sectors of the economy; they work hard, they save, they stay out of trouble.

But, because they live in the shadows, they’re vulnerable to unscrupulous businesses who pay them less than the minimum wage or violate worker safety rules, thereby putting companies who follow those rules, and Americans who rightly demand the minimum wage or overtime, at an unfair disadvantage.

Crimes go unreported as victims and witnesses fear coming forward. And this makes it harder for the police to catch violent criminals and keep neighborhoods safe, and billions in tax revenue are lost each year because many undocumented workers are paid under the table.

More fundamentally, the presence of so many illegal immigrants makes a mockery of all those who are going through the process of immigrating legally.

Indeed, after years of patchwork fixes and ill-conceived revisions, the legal immigration system is as broken as the borders.

Backlogs and bureaucracy means the process can take years.

While an applicant waits for approval, he or she is often forbidden from visiting the United States, which means even husbands and wives may be forced to spend many years apart.

Access to the united states is not a right to all people of earth. Doy. You suck as prez.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.8]

Why should we punish people who are just trying to earn a living?

Now, if the majority of Americans are skeptical of a blanket amnesty, they are also skeptical that it is possible to round up and deport 11 million people.

They know it’s not possible.

Such an effort would be logistically impossible and wildly expensive.

Moreover, it would tear at the very fabric of this nation because immigrants who are here illegally are now intricately woven into that fabric.

Many have children who are American citizens.

Some are children themselves, brought here by their parents at a very young age, growing up as American kids, only to discover their illegal status when they apply for college or a job.

Migrant workers, mostly here illegally, have been the labor force of our farmers and agricultural producers for generations.

So, even if it was possible, a program of mass deportations would disrupt our economy and communities in ways that most Americans would find intolerable.

Now, once we get past the two poles of this debate, it becomes possible to shape a practical, common-sense approach that reflects our heritage and our values.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.17]

You lie!!

 

[Timshel]

That's why cost matters. doy. You're a douche. Do you think you look smart?

Cost will be passed on for sure. But your scenario is way out of proportion. The sky will not fall. People have to eat, and will pay a lot of money for food. Have you ever been to a Whole Foods?
It's more inelastic than elastic.

But you did finally admit costs matter. you're a joke.

I have not changed my position at all, just added clarity as you were obviously confused. You cannot simply raise prices in response to higher costs. That still holds and I have explained it to you as thoroughly and clearly as possible.

I have made this same point to those arguing that increases in minimum wage lead to inflation. It does not, because McDonald's can only raise its price to a level the market will bear. However, the government does inflate in response to increases in the minimum wage and basically wipes out the increase. Your manipulations of the market go hand in hand with currency manipulation and, actually, make them necessary to avoid shortages. Meanwhile, inflation makes increases in the minimum wage necessary if it is to maintain its purchasing power.

People have to eat, yes. They don't have to eat as much or as richly (i.e., they don't have to eat cherries and carrots). They can and will subsist on staples, if cost is high.

If costs were passed on due to inflation, then that would wipe out any increase in pay to farm workers. We would again be left with no one wanting shit jobs in agriculture.

 

[Timshel]

Access to the united states is not a right to all people of earth. Doy. You suck as prez.

I agree. Mr President, deport nAHZi and all the other opponents of immigration. They do not have a right to access the United States. We will see how soon they become "criminal trespassers" and change their tune.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.8]

Our founding was rooted in the notion that America was unique as a place of refuge and freedom for, in Thomas Jefferson’s words, “oppressed humanity.”

But the ink on our Constitution was barely dry when, amidst conflict, Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts, which placed harsh restrictions of those suspected of having foreign allegiances.

A century ago, immigrants from Ireland, Italy, Poland, other European countries were routinely subjected to rank discrimination and ugly stereotypes.

Chinese immigrants were held in detention and deported from Angel Island in the San Francisco Bay.

They didn’t even get to come in.

So, the politics of who is and who is not allowed to enter this country, and on what terms, has always been contentious, and that remains true today, and it’s made worse by a failure of those of us in Washington to fix a broken immigration system.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.17]

You lie!

 

[Liberty]

To begin with, our borders have been porous for decades.

Obviously, the problem is greatest along our Southern border, but it’s not restricted to that part of the country.

In fact, because we don’t do a very good job of tracking who comes in and out of the country as visitors, large numbers avoid immigration laws simply by overstaying their visas.

The result is an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

The overwhelming majority of these men and women are simply seeking a better life for themselves and their children.

Many settle in low-wage sectors of the economy; they work hard, they save, they stay out of trouble.

But, because they live in the shadows, they’re vulnerable to unscrupulous businesses who pay them less than the minimum wage or violate worker safety rules, thereby putting companies who follow those rules, and Americans who rightly demand the minimum wage or overtime, at an unfair disadvantage.

Crimes go unreported as victims and witnesses fear coming forward. And this makes it harder for the police to catch violent criminals and keep neighborhoods safe, and billions in tax revenue are lost each year because many undocumented workers are paid under the table.

More fundamentally, the presence of so many illegal immigrants makes a mockery of all those who are going through the process of immigrating legally.

Indeed, after years of patchwork fixes and ill-conceived revisions, the legal immigration system is as broken as the borders.

Backlogs and bureaucracy means the process can take years.

While an applicant waits for approval, he or she is often forbidden from visiting the United States, which means even husbands and wives may be forced to spend many years apart.

I'd have to agree with AssHat mr. pres. You suck as pres.

You're worse than el presidentay Whore Hay Bush.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I'd have to agree with AssHat mr. pres. You suck as pres.

You're worse than el presidentay Whore Hay Bush.

You know.... Ya gotta wonder about the mentality of someone who would clone Obama and continue to post here with the moniker. It was understandable just after the election, when everyone had such high hopes for him, and all the little pinheads were giddy and all, but NOW? Really? I mean... when you're logging in, doesn't your stomach get queasy and don't you feel a little cruddy about it? Is it really all that much fun to pretend you are the worst president in history? Hell, at this point, I think I would have at least switched to Jimmuh Carter!

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

I agree. Mr President, deport nAHZi and all the other opponents of immigration. They do not have a right to access the United States. We will see how soon they become "criminal trespassers" and change their tune.

At least you're coming clean about you're inverted notion of citizenship.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.8]

So, we’ve made progress.

I’m ready to move forward; the majority of Democrats are ready to move forward; and I believe the majority of Americans are ready to move forward, but the fact is, without bipartisan support, as we had just a few years ago, we cannot solve this problem.
Reform that brings accountability to our immigration system cannot pass without Republican votes.

That is the political and mathematical reality.

The only way to reduce the risk that this effort will again falter because of politics is if members of both parties are willing to take responsibility for solving this problem once and for all, and, yes, this is an emotional question, and one that lends itself to demagoguery.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.17]

You lie!