Trump's Approval Rating IMPLODES

Hello Port Tack,

Port Tack said:
You are always going to have ~30% answer a poll with a stupid answer. I'm sure if you asked who you thought won the 2016 election you would have ~30% say Hillary.
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Interesting. I disagree. I wish we could test that.

I think most people accept that Hillary won the popular vote but lost the EC.

I would guess the figure would be <5%.
 
Bill said:
IMHO it is not a lack of intelligence or education but rather a desire for trump to be what they have imagined him to be~ what he told them he was, what he sold himself as, & they bought hook, line & stinker..

trump told them what they wanted to hear, from his attack on Mexicans up to his attack on the capital......

I have never found a good, simple way to explain this.

It is really a desire for it to be true & a unwillingness to apply critical thinking & questioning for him..

To admit he is wrong etc. is "felt" as a reflection on self & serves to further harden ones position....

As many have pointed out, this kinda thinking is akin to a cult & no amount of truth or evidence is going to persuade them~ their beliefs in him are not based on logic but rather emotion & some kinda deep seeded desire to protect him & as an extension-self.........

I have posted threads on this, & a few fairly recently from the NPR program hidden brain which deals w/ several aspects of this including how contrary (to strongly held beliefs)information/truths often push ppl to strengthen their beliefs, even when faced w/ indisputable facts.. :|
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Well said. :thumbsup::hand:

I love Hidden Brain. Vedantam challenges your thinking in ways you may not have considered before.
 
Bill said:
IMHO it is not a lack of intelligence or education but rather a desire for trump to be what they have imagined him to be~ what he told them he was, what he sold himself as, & they bought hook, line & stinker..

trump told them what they wanted to hear, from his attack on Mexicans up to his attack on the capital......

I have never found a good, simple way to explain this.

It is really a desire for it to be true & a unwillingness to apply critical thinking & questioning for him..

To admit he is wrong etc. is "felt" as a reflection on self & serves to further harden ones position....

As many have pointed out, this kinda thinking is akin to a cult & no amount of truth or evidence is going to persuade them~ their beliefs in him are not based on logic but rather emotion & some kinda deep seeded desire to protect him & as an extension-self.........

I have posted threads on this, & a few fairly recently from the NPR program hidden brain which deals w/ several aspects of this including how contrary (to strongly held beliefs)information/truths often push ppl to strengthen their beliefs, even when faced w/ indisputable facts.. :|
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facts can be threatening to ideologies so people reject them.
a fact, being true, carries a lot of ideological power, it can be highly disruptive to an ideology the fact is contrary to.
it doesn't mean the ideology is wrong, though, it may be only superficially opposed by the fact, but still very difficult to counter.
so, smart people learn to be careful around facts.
but a dumb ideology is most dangerous of all, because it will reject a lot of important facts.
so, try not to have any dumb ideologies. :laugh:
 
Cinnabar said:
Overplayed his hand.
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Trump is the only president to never have a Approval Rating of over 50%.

Pathetic. Worst president in American History. Last week solidified his failed legacy in the history books.

Trump-mocks-disabilityx.gif
 
Into the Night said:
Public schools??? You mean those institutions that teach kids to put condoms on bananas? That teach a tomato is a vegetable? That teach the Church of Global Warming and the Church of Green? That teach that corporations are EVIL?
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There you go with more Chicken Little Scare Tactics. Your weak-minded Trump followers may buy what you're spewing but the average person knows you're just suffering from irrational delusions.

tenor.gif



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Even his Staff are having a difficult time getting the Job they want.

Couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of Ass-Holes ...

They earned it :cool:
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



I appreciate that you have different views. I want to hear them. If I as a liberal get some crazy ideas I need you as a conservative to point out why they might not work. So far, you're not raising any objections to my view that have caused me to reconsider. Seems like you're simply taking the 'don't trust the government to do anything' approach. We have to support our public institutions or our nation dies. It always amazes me that smart people who are the product of public schools themselves take a position that suddenly public schools are no good any more.

Really, we both know why struggling schools are struggling. Schools in a poor area don't get as much funding. The ones in the rich areas do. But there are now enough very rich people who want to send THEIR kids to an upscale private school, so they don't want to pay for public education any more. So the demand for public schools for rich kids has dropped. The remainder of public school children are from the lower income strata, and go to the neglected schools. Republicans are quick to come in and offer a better option for them - at a price. The whole thing is turning into a scam. It represents a further separation of haves and the have-nots. It contributes to the polarization of our society. We are creating a social class system. No, I don't like it. We should not be doing that. We should create an excellent public school system that everyone would be proud to send their kids to and pay whatever that costs in government funding because it is worth it to society to have a smarter populace. China is putting us to shame.
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Your premise in ITT was our education system is a failure because there are people who support Trump. If you really want to fix that do what the Chinese and Russians did and put them in education camps where they are all brainwashed to think one thing. Otherwise it's not happening, nor is the education system at fault for that. For starters a lot of political beliefs come from the home. If you want to make potential parents take a test of some sort that the state gives acknowledging they hold correct political beliefs before being given the green light to get pregnant we could do that. But you're likely to get pushback on that.

The other problem that you leave out with public education is human nature. At the end of the day people are basically going to act in their own best interest and education fits right in there. And living in Oakland, LA and San Francisco for over 35 years I've seen this over and over and over again. People give lip service to wanting good public schools, say that we need to support public schools etc. then send their kids to private school. The other thing they do is move out of their current diverse area to a wealthy suburb that's largely all white that has good public schools.

So if you don't have money to afford private school, or don't have money to move to a well to do suburb with good public schools, then you are stuck with your neighborhood school. That's why you see many families in urban areas, even though they vote Democratic, support charter schools.

That's the real world right there.
 
^what about vouchers so people can go to charter schools? you can't have one-size-fits all you need vocational boarding schools with semi-guaranteed employment but nah you'll have beggar-thy-vote political parties no marxist developmental strategy will ever be possible, you don't care anyway because the people that plot these things are doing fine and they just want to do feel-good talking.
 
Hello cloud9,

cloud9 said:
facts can be threatening to ideologies so people reject them.
a fact, being true, carries a lot of ideological power, it can be highly disruptive to an ideology the fact is contrary to.
it doesn't mean the ideology is wrong, though, it may be only superficially opposed by the fact, but still very difficult to counter.
so, smart people learn to be careful around facts.
but a dumb ideology is most dangerous of all, because it will reject a lot of important facts.
so, try not to have any dumb ideologies. :laugh:
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The problem for right wing extremists is they abandoned facts way back when we tried to tell them that humans have caused climate change and we have to adjust the way we process energy. Once the hard right figured out they don't have to argue what to do about a problem if they simply deny the problem exists, they adopted the new strategy of simply denying facts.

That disastrous ideology has expanded into nearly every issue since. Instead of arguing with the left, they don't even listen to the left. Instead, they make up their own version of what the left says and respond to that.

The right knows that if they accept facts, they lose the argument of what to do about the big issues.

So they just poison the whole debate from the outset. That way they can't lose. (In their minds) In reality, we all lose because we can't make any progress.

Vitally important issues go unaddressed because the only way for either side to get anything done is without the consent of the other side. If one side gets the majority and tries to pass something, the other side works to undo it, or make sure it does not succeed.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
Your premise in ITT was our education system is a failure because there are people who support Trump. If you really want to fix that do what the Chinese and Russians did and put them in education camps where they are all brainwashed to think one thing. Otherwise it's not happening, nor is the education system at fault for that. For starters a lot of political beliefs come from the home. If you want to make potential parents take a test of some sort that the state gives acknowledging they hold correct political beliefs before being given the green light to get pregnant we could do that. But you're likely to get pushback on that.

The other problem that you leave out with public education is human nature. At the end of the day people are basically going to act in their own best interest and education fits right in there. And living in Oakland, LA and San Francisco for over 35 years I've seen this over and over and over again. People give lip service to wanting good public schools, say that we need to support public schools etc. then send their kids to private school. The other thing they do is move out of their current diverse area to a wealthy suburb that's largely all white that has good public schools.

So if you don't have money to afford private school, or don't have money to move to a well to do suburb with good public schools, then you are stuck with your neighborhood school. That's why you see many families in urban areas, even though they vote Democratic, support charter schools.

That's the real world right there.
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Here's what I said:

"The sad part is there are still 33% who approve of his job performance.

It represents a failure of our educational system."

It's not really so much about right/left but more about being knowledgeable about the man. Someone who is well-educated knows they should learn about the background of someone they intend to vote for. Anybody who really dug into Trump's background would learn that he has been married 3 times, has no friends, is a shunned social failure, has a history of racial discrimination, has repeatedly made very foolish public statements, is accused of a variety of troubling crimes including fraud and tax evasion, is a chronic liar, supported the whole birther nonsense, and is a terrible businessman. Now, I can understand people who weight this all out against what they have heard about Hillary, and she came with plenty of baggage herself, but after Trump's following turned violent and destructive against our own Congress that should have been the straw the broke the camel's back about Trump support. It certainly has been for many. And it is no longer about Hillary or Trump. That is old news. Now, it's just about whether or not people can admit it has been a mistake to have Trump in the WH. Wise mature people are able to say enough is enough and withdraw their support. The ones who refuse to admit the mistake suggest to me that our education system needs to be doing a better job, and we need smarter people who are also mature enough to admit and learn from their mistakes.

If going to a private school system was supposed to have improved our national education results, it hasn't.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



Here's what I said:

"The sad part is there are still 33% who approve of his job performance.

It represents a failure of our educational system."

It's not really so much about right/left but more about being knowledgeable about the man. Someone who is well-educated knows they should learn about the background of someone they intend to vote for. Anybody who really dug into Trump's background would learn that he has been married 3 times, has no friends, is a shunned social failure, has a history of racial discrimination, has repeatedly made very foolish public statements, is accused of a variety of troubling crimes including fraud and tax evasion, is a chronic liar, supported the whole birther nonsense, and is a terrible businessman. Now, I can understand people who weight this all out against what they have heard about Hillary, and she came with plenty of baggage herself, but after Trump's following turned violent and destructive against our own Congress that should have been the straw the broke the camel's back about Trump support. It certainly has been for many. And it is no longer about Hillary or Trump. That is old news. Now, it's just about whether or not people can admit it has been a mistake to have Trump in the WH. Wise mature people are able to say enough is enough and withdraw their support. The ones who refuse to admit the mistake suggest to me that our education system needs to be doing a better job, and we need smarter people who are also mature enough to admit and learn from their mistakes.

If going to a private school system was supposed to have improved our national education results, it hasn't.
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Short of putting people in concentration camps and threatening death you're never going to get a nation of 300+ million people to all agree on something politically. So from that perspective yes, our educational system will always be a failure because people will always have different political viewpoints.

I'm not sure what you mean by going to a private school system. Where is that coming from?
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
Short of putting people in concentration camps and threatening death you're never going to get a nation of 300+ million people to all agree on something politically. So from that perspective yes, our educational system will always be a failure because people will always have different political viewpoints.

I'm not sure what you mean by going to a private school system. Where is that coming from?
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When our educational system cranks out children that score on par with kids in other countries it will be acceptable. Despite all the educational profiteering Republicans tell us will produce that, it has not occurred. There simply are some things that are not better accomplished using a for-profit system. Good workers have a strong work ethic if they feel they are making a contribution to society and feel they are paid fairly. It doesn't matter to them if they work for a corporation or the government. Lots of people work for the government, work hard, and have great lives that they enjoy.

The propaganda that for-profit schooling is preferable comes directly from those who would profit from those systems.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cawacko,



When our educational system cranks out children that score on par with kids in other countries it will be acceptable. Despite all the educational profiteering Republicans tell us will produce that, it has not occurred. There simply are some things that are not better accomplished using a for-profit system. Good workers have a strong work ethic if they feel they are making a contribution to society and feel they are paid fairly. It doesn't matter to them if they work for a corporation or the government. Lots of people work for the government, work hard, and have great lives that they enjoy.

The propaganda that for-profit schooling is preferable comes directly from those who would profit from those systems.
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I enjoy talking about education because it is so important, but I am honestly not following what you are saying here in relation to what we were discussing previously.

If this is in reference to charter schools, charter schools are tuition free public schools. They aren't a panacea to our educational challenges but they get the support they do from parents because many of them experienced the failure of the traditional public school system and want an alternative.

And you didn't address the reality that many parents give lip service to the need for public education but send their kids to private schools. They don't want themselves, or their children, to be the agents of change. They want others to do it.
 
the hard right figured out they don't have to argue what to do about a problem if they simply deny the problem exists,
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The Left figured out if they have mass censorship and deny there was voter fraud will work too. Fail. The PC you defend does anything but discuss the problem. It accuses people of causing that problem who are trying to fix it. It does not matter if the problem exists or not. Reality has little to do with manufactured narratives.
 
Hello cawacko,

cawacko said:
I enjoy talking about education because it is so important, but I am honestly not following what you are saying here in relation to what we were discussing previously.

If this is in reference to charter schools, charter schools are tuition free public schools. They aren't a panacea to our educational challenges but they get the support they do from parents because many of them experienced the failure of the traditional public school system and want an alternative.

And you didn't address the reality that many parents give lip service to the need for public education but send their kids to private schools. They don't want themselves, or their children, to be the agents of change. They want others to do it.
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Charter schools are for-profit. Since they have all the same expenses as a government-run school + [the need to generate a profit for the owners], it logically follows that they will be more expensive. If they are not, that means they have cut something such as teacher pay.

Parents who advocate for better public schools but send their own kids to private schools often feel that because public schools are performing so poorly they have no option. They probably feel that they are forced to pay extra where they should not have to.
 
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