U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: ATHEISM IS RELIGION

Obtenebrator said:
Hold it right there: when you say "objective" set of morality you surely must mean that it is OBJECTIVELY right and wrong. Not just for humans but for all living creatures. Otherwise it's just something HUMANS made up for HUMANS which is kind of the whole point of "SUBJECTIVE".

You have described SUBJECTIVE morality, not objective morality.
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That's right, the religious concept is a objective moral law given by a law giver for humans. Not for armadillos. At least that's the religious and ontological view.

But why did you think you made such a clever retort?

The weak nuclear force is objectively true, but it only applies to atomic nuclei, not to electrons. The strong nuclear force is objectively true, but it doesn't apply to neutrinos. Entropy is objectively true, but it doesn't apply to open systems.

I don't know if objective morality is true, but it sounds a lot better than a subjective morality based on the popular vote. That's partly why Antigone by Sophocles resonates with people throughout the ages.

You seem to be keen to resist and debate the precepts of subjective morality, which is a tenet of atheism. If you aren't rushing to warmly embrace subjective morality based on opinion and popular vote, you should rethink what made you believe you are atheist.
 
Cypress said:
That's right, the religious concept is a objective moral law given by a law giver for humans. Not for armadillos.
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Then it isn't objective. QED.

Cypress said:
Why did you think you made such a clever point?
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Because words have meaning.

Cypress said:
The weak nuclear force is objectively true, but it only applies to atomic nuclei, not to electrons. The strong nuclear force is objectively true, but it doesn't apply to neutrinos. Entropy is objectively true, but it doesn't apply to open systems.
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Gosh I'm impresssed with your "science knowledge". Nothing to do with the point. But gosh I'm impressed.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Then it isn't objective. QED.



Because words have meaning.



Gosh I'm impresssed with your "science knowledge". Nothing to do with the point. But gosh I'm impressed.
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I accept your grudging and tacit confession that things can actually be objectively true, without applying to everything, everywhere, at all times.

For example, the Pythagorean theorem only applies to right triangles, the weak nuclear force only applies to atomic nuclei, second law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems, etc.
 
Cypress said:
I accept your grudging and tacit confession that things can actually be objectively true, without applying to everything, everywhere, at all times.
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Why do you like to twist people's words to say what they didn't say? Just curious why this completely dishonest approach is OK with you but you sit on your high horse and bitch about everyone else who doesn't act perfectly honestly at all times.




 
Obtenebrator said:
My position is that I lack a belief in God. If someone wants to call that a "belief" then they clearly don't like the fact that words have meaning.

It is up to YOU who claim you believe in God to provide evidence for it. It is NOT up to me who lacks a belief to provide evidence of absence.

Sorry but that's just how logic works. (Feel free to hate it like you hate so many other things)
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why would be up to me.....its not like I want shit like you to get INTO heaven......we've told you the way it works.....choose to believe if you want........or burn in hell........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why would be up to me.....its not like I want shit like you to get INTO heaven......we've told you the way it works.....choose to believe if you want........or burn in hell........
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popcorn.gif


LMAO!!!!
 
PostmodernProphet said:
why would be up to me.....its not like I want shit like you to get INTO heaven
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If heaven is for people like you I think maybe you overshot by a couple of letters.

PostmodernProphet said:
......we've told you the way it works.....choose to believe if you want........or burn in hell........
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Oh YOU are doing the telling, eh? You sittin' at the right hand of the father to come to judge the quick and the dead? My my my....someone thinks highly of themselves.

Why don't you dispense with this whole "mockery of Christianity" thing. It is unappealing. If you are some sort of anti-religious zealot and you though masquerading as a "Christian" and then being the most foul-mouthed, hate-filled "witness" for Christ in order to mock the faith you really should reconsider this particular gambit.

Your hatred and bile really don't comport well with the message of Christ.
 
Obtenebrator said:
My position is that I lack a belief in God. If someone wants to call that a "belief" then they clearly don't like the fact that words have meaning.

It is up to YOU who claim you believe in God to provide evidence for it. It is NOT up to me who lacks a belief to provide evidence of absence.

Sorry but that's just how logic works. (Feel free to hate it like you hate so many other things)
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Obtenebrator:

The lack of belief in a God or gods is classified as RELIGION when that lack of belief is of overwhelming importance in one's life. Notice the definition below that I previously gave in this thread. Focus on definition #5.

DEFINITION OF "RELIGION:"

Collins
World English Dictionary
religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)
— n
1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny

2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion

3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers

4. chiefly RC Church the way of life determined by the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience entered upon by monks, friars, and nuns: to enter religion

5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion

6. archaic

a. the practice of sacred ritual observances

b. sacred rites and ceremonies
 
Obtenebrator said:
My position is that I lack a belief in God. If someone wants to call that a "belief" then they clearly don't like the fact that words have meaning.

It is up to YOU who claim you believe in God to provide evidence for it. It is NOT up to me who lacks a belief to provide evidence of absence.

Sorry but that's just how logic works. (Feel free to hate it like you hate so many other things)
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PostmodernProphet said:
why would be up to me.....its not like I want shit like you to get INTO heaven......we've told you the way it works.....choose to believe if you want........or burn in hell........
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Actually PostmodernProphet:

There is no such thing as literal hellfire torment in the Bible. Neither does the Bible say that all good people go to heaven.
 
Obtenebrator said:
If heaven is for people like you I think maybe you overshot by a couple of letters.



Oh YOU are doing the telling, eh? You sittin' at the right hand of the father to come to judge the quick and the dead? My my my....someone thinks highly of themselves.

Why don't you dispense with this whole "mockery of Christianity" thing. It is unappealing. If you are some sort of anti-religious zealot and you though masquerading as a "Christian" and then being the most foul-mouthed, hate-filled "witness" for Christ in order to mock the faith you really should reconsider this particular gambit.

Your hatred and bile really don't comport well with the message of Christ.
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Preach!
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
A belief is too different from a belief?
I think you need to reexamine your own argument instead of just making up a fallacy in order to not address my very clear analogy.

I think you didn't even attempt to refute my point because you know you can't refute.
Religion simply adopts a viewpoint that allows for anything to be claimed in order to continue to support itself.
It allows that God is all powerful. It allows for a God doesn't have the power over everything. It allows for a God that is all knowing. It allows for a God that doesn't know everything. It allows that God is all merciful. It allows that God is all cruel. There is no objective standard since religion simply uses the conclusion to adjust the facts to whatever they need to continue with their belief. In that way religion is like a belief that there is a river running through my living room. They can simply ignore all the objective observations to make up whatever subjective ones they feel they need to justify their belief. Atheists on the other hand can have an objective standard that doesn't require changes to support their belief. An atheist could simply have a standard that until they see a miracle that can't be explained by science they will believe there is no god.
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An "atheist" is just someone who uses the word "atheist" as a SELF-DESCRIPTOR. There is no standard definition of atheist...which one can easily see because atheists are constantly explaining what THEY mean by atheist.

And ANYONE who uses the descriptor "atheist" is motivated by belief...either of two beliefs.

They either believe there are no gods...

...or they believe it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Both of those beliefs, no matter how much they will argue otherwise, are just guesses. Neither is supported by evidence...scientific, mathematic, logic, or reason.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
oh I'm sorry dude, I thought you realized........the guy who can actually get us in heaven is thy guy at the door you told to go fuck himself........
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The guy who you think gets you into heaven said the way to God’s Kingdom was to obey the law. That’s it. Matthew 16.

Nothing about any death and resurrection or dying for someone else’s sins.

Obey the law. Period.
 
Alter2Ego said:
Obtenebrator:

The lack of belief in a God or gods is classified as RELIGION when that lack of belief is of overwhelming importance in one's life. Notice the definition below that I previously gave in this thread. Focus on definition #5.
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Not really. Religion is a belief. Lack of belief is NOT a belief.


Alter2Ego said:
DEFINITION OF "RELIGION:"

Collins
World English Dictionary
religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)
— n
1. belief in, worship of, or obedience to a supernatural power or powers considered to be divine or to have control of human destiny
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Hence: atheism is not a religion.

Alter2Ego said:
2. any formal or institutionalized expression of such belief: the Christian religion
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There is no atheist "institution".

Alter2Ego said:
3. the attitude and feeling of one who believes in a transcendent controlling power or powers
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Atheism is the LACK of this. So by definition NOT this.

Alter2Ego said:
5. something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion
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This is a "turn of phrase" and not an actual definition of religion per se. No one who loves football believes it is a real religion. This is juvenile and absurd.

Alter2Ego said:
6. archaic

a. the practice of sacred ritual observances

b. sacred rites and ceremonies
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Again, by definition, NOT atheism.
 
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