Understanding Socialism

Countries can very easily go back.

No, they can't! And I will demonstrate this with your own words...

Canada is one example. When universal medical was implemented private clinics were discouraged so as to ensure some people didn't go to the head of the line.

That was over 40 years ago. Now there are private clinics trying to start up in Canada and they are contesting the law that originally banned them.

Keyword: TRYING!

Why? Because there is money to be made. People are generally wealthier than they were back in the 60s. The "boomers", as a generation, did very well. So, now they don't like waiting in line.

What??? You mean people will have to wait in line while they are sick????? I thought a nationalized system took care of all that? Oh yeah, that's right... it's FREE now, so everybody and their brother is lined up around the block to get it! And since it's FREE, not as many people want to provide the service, because most people don't want to provide their services for FREE! So you end up with all these people who want it, but not as many who want to give it.... and that is why people have to wait in lines! WOW!

Now they want the doctor that phones them at home like they're someone important. Meanwhile, the doctor could be operating or treating someone rather then being on the phone.

What? You mean people in Canada aren't treated as if they are important? Maybe it's because of the long lines and fewer doctors, a tumor on your breast isn't as important as a gunshot wound? Or maybe it's because 45% of your practicing physicians retired and left their practice because of socialized medicine? But jeesh... Waiting in line? I thought this new health care system was supposed to fix those things? I mean, someone might actually DIE while waiting to be cared for, huh?
 
POST 240...Dixie

I understand it completely... From each according to ability, to each according to need! It's Karl Marx Socialism!

You pay very little of the taxes, in fact, I bet you are in the bracket which pays the least tax. Every time the taxes are increased to pay for this shit, it's the RICH who get hit with the bill! The top 5% of taxpayers are paying 61% of all the tax paid! The top 25% pay 87%... you probably aren't in the top 25%, so you don't give a shit if their taxes are raised, because you are a greedy pig who doesn't want to have to pay yourself!
__________________
They couldn't understand that....so
Is it worth repeating over and over....?

If they can't understand the primary concept of Socialism, how can they understand what Obamanomics and liberalism is all about...
 
Because before SS the old folks didn't even have a shit-hole to live in. They starved to death unless they had family to look after them.

And do you know anyone who has continually invested for 45 years?

Talk about a fantasy!

That's what poor farms are for. And charities.

We're not talking about investing for 45 years, but working that long, which most folks do. Folks can't invest that much now because of Social Security taking 12.4% from every paycheck. Those that work less would get less than three times their working salary upon retirement.
 
No, they can't! And I will demonstrate this with your own words...

Keyword: TRYING!

Yes, trying. Trying to undermine the free system. Due to greed some doctors will work at the "pay or suffer" center and when business is slow pick up a few extra dollars from government patients. Of course the government does have an option. If a doctor wants to work at a "pay or suffer" center, fine, but don't expect to receive any government patients.

Do you follow? The greedy doc will tell the government patient they can't treat them under the government payment plan but if they bring their check book to the "pay or suffer" center they'll see what they can do.

Well, that ain't gonna happen.:)

What??? You mean people will have to wait in line while they are sick????? I thought a nationalized system took care of all that? Oh yeah, that's right... it's FREE now, so everybody and their brother is lined up around the block to get it! And since it's FREE, not as many people want to provide the service, because most people don't want to provide their services for FREE! So you end up with all these people who want it, but not as many who want to give it.... and that is why people have to wait in lines! WOW!

Nobody is asked to provide their services for free. Doctors are paid.

As for waiting, yes, just like one waits to get on the highway at rush hour. If you insist on living in the suburbs and work downtown then, yes, you will have to wait to get to work.

Similarly, if you insist on going to a certain hospital to see a certain doctor that is your right. However, if a lot of people are insisting on going to the same hospital and seeing the same doctor guess what is going to happen. That is the crux of the so-called waiting problem.

Then there are people who live in some small town and complain if they have to drive to a larger city to get specialized treatment. Of course, if medical was a free enterprise there still wouldn't be any specialized treatment center in their small town because there isn't enough people to support it but that doesn't stop the disgruntled individual ranting on about being denied free medical care.

What? You mean people in Canada aren't treated as if they are important? Maybe it's because of the long lines and fewer doctors, a tumor on your breast isn't as important as a gunshot wound? Or maybe it's because 45% of your practicing physicians retired and left their practice because of socialized medicine? But jeesh... Waiting in line? I thought this new health care system was supposed to fix those things? I mean, someone might actually DIE while waiting to be cared for, huh?

No, no one dies. The more severely injured patient gets the first care just like any emergency department operates. It's not that complicated.

The whole point is there isn't any justifiable reason a country can not look after it's ill people. There isn't any reason, period. Either the country can supply the necessary equipment/drugs or it can't and considering the US is one of the richest countries on the planet then it goes without saying medical can and should be available to everyone, regardless.
 
They go where their Commander in Chief sends them... why don't you ask Obama why they aren't in Hawaii now?

We know why. They are repairing the damage caused by the previous administration be it infrastructure or trying to convince the local folks Westerners are not all war-mad tyrants.

I explained this before. Everyone in a leadership position has said the same thing and that is it's vital to win over the local people. That will not be done by saying, "Oops, we blew up your country. We'll go home now."

There are reparations to be made.
 
That's what poor farms are for. And charities.

We're not talking about investing for 45 years, but working that long, which most folks do. Folks can't invest that much now because of Social Security taking 12.4% from every paycheck. Those that work less would get less than three times their working salary upon retirement.

Most folks never invested and those who did had no idea what the hell they were doing.

SS came about out of need. Life used to be the way you think it should be, again. It didn't work before. Why do you think it would work this time?
 
Apple claims we have a "Pay or Suffer" system, and he wants to replace it with a "Wait in Line and Suffer" plan.... THAT'S PROGRESS!!

Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Do some research on other countries.

Once, again, there is not ONE country that has opted to return to the old system and they all started out with the same system. That being the "pay or suffer" system.
 
Obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Do some research on other countries.

Once, again, there is not ONE country that has opted to return to the old system and they all started out with the same system. That being the "pay or suffer" system.
Yet many are returning to it. Again, even you recognize that Canadians are going to illegal clinics in order to get care. (you mention them trying to get them legalized again...)

They moved from the "pay or suffer" to the "pay AND suffer" system, and they are unhappy. They'll continue to try and fix the pay and suffer system, until it resembles the "pay or suffer" system....
 
Yes, trying. Trying to undermine the free system. Due to greed some doctors will work at the "pay or suffer" center and when business is slow pick up a few extra dollars from government patients. Of course the government does have an option. If a doctor wants to work at a "pay or suffer" center, fine, but don't expect to receive any government patients.

You are so fucking convoluted I don't even know what you are talking about anymore! You just claimed "there are private clinics trying to start up in Canada." Why would this be the case if the socialized system were filling the needs? IF everyone were happy under the socialized system, there wouldn't be anyone interested in trying to start up a private clinic! Obviously, there IS a market for it, obviously, there is a demand!

Do you follow? The greedy doc will tell the government patient they can't treat them under the government payment plan but if they bring their check book to the "pay or suffer" center they'll see what they can do.

Well, that ain't gonna happen.:)

You just said, it's already happening in Canada! And we've already established that the US doesn't have a "pay or suffer" system... MEDICARE... MEDICAID... INDIGENT CARE... STATE HEALTH CLINICS! You've not addressed any of these, and they certainly DO provide a great deal of medical care for the suffering, without regard for their ability to PAY!

Nobody is asked to provide their services for free. Doctors are paid.

BY WHO??? Not the insurance companies or consumer anymore, you've dismantled that system! They are paid by THE GOVERNMENT, and this will be determined by THE GOVERNMENT, and if the doctors don't like the amount, what then? Are we going to FORCE people to practice medicine against their will? Is THAT what comes next?

As for waiting, yes, just like one waits to get on the highway at rush hour. If you insist on living in the suburbs and work downtown then, yes, you will have to wait to get to work...Similarly, if you insist on going to a certain hospital to see a certain doctor that is your right. However, if a lot of people are insisting on going to the same hospital and seeing the same doctor guess what is going to happen. That is the crux of the so-called waiting problem.

You have no idea of what you're talking about! You are not going to have any fucking rights! If you want medical care, you will have to go where the government says you can go, and see the doctor the government says you can see, and he will perform the treatments the government says he can perform, and you will wait as long as you have to wait for it, the government is not going to give a damn how long you had to wait! If you aren't satisfied with your medical care, you can bitch to the government, and see where that gets you!

Then there are people who live in some small town and complain if they have to drive to a larger city to get specialized treatment. Of course, if medical was a free enterprise there still wouldn't be any specialized treatment center in their small town because there isn't enough people to support it but that doesn't stop the disgruntled individual ranting on about being denied free medical care.

And you just mindlessly rant on about what? You are not even coherent anymore! Do you think when we have a socialized system in place, every podunk town across America is going to have a plethora of medical specialists popping up everywhere? What in the fuck is your point here? When you add 40 million people and subtract 45% of the doctors, you are going to have a damn problem! Do you not understand that?

No, no one dies. The more severely injured patient gets the first care just like any emergency department operates. It's not that complicated.

Again.... 40 million EXTRA people are going to be cared for... 45% fewer doctors are going to be there to do the caring! I don't care what kind of system you put in place, someone is going to die waiting for treatment. To believe otherwise, is just plain foolish.

The whole point is there isn't any justifiable reason a country can not look after it's ill people. There isn't any reason, period. Either the country can supply the necessary equipment/drugs or it can't and considering the US is one of the richest countries on the planet then it goes without saying medical can and should be available to everyone, regardless.

WE DO LOOK AFTER OUR PEOPLE! Medical care is available to EVERY American! Every American citizen who can't afford health insurance is entitled to coverage under Medicare and Medicaid... Every hospital in America is REQUIRED to treat you regardless of your ability to pay! Every State in the country has state-run health clinics, FREE to the public!

What country do you live in? What planet are you living on?
 
Yet many are returning to it. Again, even you recognize that Canadians are going to illegal clinics in order to get care. (you mention them trying to get them legalized again...)

Yes, there will always be people who feel they deserve better than anyone else and there will always be greedy people ready to exploit them.

Look at the celebrities who travel to foreign countries spending loads of money on tree bark and fried grubs :lol: believing their cancer will be healed.

Its like a private consortium building a toll road near a city. Should the people who use that get a reduction on their license plate costs because they are not using the public highway?

Should people who do not have children be exempt from school tax?

Should people in wood houses pay more tax towards fire protection services than one who lives in a brick house?

Take the legal profession, for example. A person who can not afford a lawyer gets one for free. Most people can afford a lawyer. Why should our taxes pay for a lawyer for someone else?

As society progresses there are certain things that go along with it, otherwise, we run into problems. The main thing is we must ensure everyone has a certain standard of living. We can't expect people to act civilized when their standard of living is anything but civilized.
 
Yet many are returning to it. Again, even you recognize that Canadians are going to illegal clinics in order to get care. (you mention them trying to get them legalized again...)

They moved from the "pay or suffer" to the "pay AND suffer" system, and they are unhappy. They'll continue to try and fix the pay and suffer system, until it resembles the "pay or suffer" system....

They are in the minority. Small minority.

As I mentioned earlier there is not one politician campaigning on dismantling such a system.

If I recall correctly a few years ago a Canadian politician briefly ruminated about imposing a user pay system. Not a big deal. Something along the lines of $10.00 or $15.00 towards a doctor's visit. He is a foot-note in history. HA!
 
The main thing is we must ensure everyone has a certain standard of living.

This is the problem in a nutshell. You want to live in a communist society, where everyone has exactly the same wealth, and all property is divided equally, that is (according to your philosophy) the only fair way to be civilized. The problem is, human nature doesn't agree with your philosophy. If men no longer have the ability to gain more wealth or achieve greater things for themselves and their families, they become unmotivated, which results in a lack of production, which results in social decline across the board. Society ends up in despair, with a sense of hopelessness, and your civilization eventually crumbles or falls to a tyrant dictatorship.

It is through the spirit of freedom and liberty, capitalism and free markets, that men prosper and the result is a rising tide lifting all boats. The health care situation in America is not as terrible as the left wants to believe, most of America is content with what we have now, and simply feel that a few changes need to be made. You, and your socialist friends, want to take this opportunity to destroy the best health care system the world has ever known, and replace it with something far inferior. By your own admissions here, people will have a lower quality of care and less available care, but you don't give a damn about that, as long as we all have the same pathetic 3rd-world socialist care!
 
You are so fucking convoluted I don't even know what you are talking about anymore! You just claimed "there are private clinics trying to start up in Canada." Why would this be the case if the socialized system were filling the needs? IF everyone were happy under the socialized system, there wouldn't be anyone interested in trying to start up a private clinic! Obviously, there IS a market for it, obviously, there is a demand!
]

Yes, a small demand. Of course there are people who are not happy with the system. Just like there are people who are not happy waiting in traffic or standing in line at a restaurant or concert. There will always be people who feel they are special, important, selfish.

Get the picture?

]You just said, it's already happening in Canada! And we've already established that the US doesn't have a "pay or suffer" system... MEDICARE... MEDICAID... INDIGENT CARE... STATE HEALTH CLINICS! You've not addressed any of these, and they certainly DO provide a great deal of medical care for the suffering, without regard for their ability to PAY!
]

If paying isn't required how do people go bankrupt from medical bills? :confused

]BY WHO??? Not the insurance companies or consumer anymore, you've dismantled that system! They are paid by THE GOVERNMENT, and this will be determined by THE GOVERNMENT, and if the doctors don't like the amount, what then? Are we going to FORCE people to practice medicine against their will? Is THAT what comes next?
]

There are plenty of people ready to practice.

EDIT: Rest of the post coming later.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top