Universal Healthcare

[kudzu]

YEAH!!!!! And Americans can all go to Mexico for critical operations to keep from dying on the National American Waiting List, right old buddy????? We got a government 21 trillion $ in debt and the military protector of the entire free world costing trillions more and you want National Socialized Healthcare that will cost 35 trillion $ more. What school of economics did you graduate from old pal? Europe "affords" socialized medicine because we pay for their national defense We provide more loot to NATO operations than all of the rest of NATO members combined and they don't even pay the dues they promised to pay when NATO was originated. So, how do you suppose all of those facts will work out for America?

You moron.. The only socialized medicine in the US is the VA system which is very poor and very expensive.

Private delivery-single payer isn't socialized medicine.

 

[Robo]

You moron.. The only socialized medicine in the US is the VA system which is very poor and very expensive.

Private delivery-single payer isn't socialized medicine.

My dictionary tells me that SOCIALISM is government control of "the means of production." If single payer is "GOVERNMENT PAYER," Do you claim that the government has no control over the payments for the healthcare production government pays for? You'll need to explain your claim in some depth friend.

 

[Robo]

Canadian Healthcare Information. Just type in "Canada's failing healthcare system." Here's the first 1/2 dozen sites on the first page.

1. Why Canada's 'best' health-care system just got ranked last — again ...
1. BONOKOSKI: Canadians want options to failing healthcare system ...
1. The Top Ten Things People Believe About Canadian Health Care, But ...
1. Universal Health Care in Canada: A Colossal Government Failure ...
1. Is Canada's health care system as great as we believe it to be? | CTV ...
1. Canada's Single-Payer Health Care System: A Cautionary Tale ...

 

[kudzu]

My dictionary tells me that SOCIALISM is government control of "the means of production." If single payer is "GOVERNMENT PAYER," Do you claim that the government has no control over the payments for the healthcare production government pays for? You'll need to explain your claim in some depth friend.

Its funded by payroll taxes and government doesn't employ the doctors, nurses. etc OR own and operate the hospitals and clinics and doctor's offices.

 

[Robo]

Its funded by payroll taxes and government doesn't employ the doctors, nurses. etc OR own and operate the hospitals and clinics and doctor's offices.

Does government "REGULATE" the system? i.e. "control the means of production" of it? For your information friend, government is "SOCIALISM" by definition. The only valid discussion of the government's socialism is "TO WHAT DEGEREE" government "SOCIALIZES" a particular nation and to what degree does government allow capitalism.

 

[kudzu]

Does government "REGULATE" the system? i.e. "control the means of production" of it? For your information friend, government is "SOCIALISM" by definition. The only valid discussion of the government's socialism is "TO WHAT DEGEREE" government "SOCIALIZES" a particular nation and to what degree does government allow capitalism.

You mean medical licensure? Yes. Regulation in the sense that your dogcatcher can't do brain surgery.

 

[Robo]

You mean medical licensure? Yes. Regulation in the sense that your dogcatcher can't do brain surgery.

So the Canadian government doesn't decide/control doctor's salaries, the cost of drugs, hospital cost and reimbursements and qualifying procedures and medical equipment, right? Who does all of that? I need to know.

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

And they're called "SOCIAL" programs because???????

Here we go with semantics again.

You Republicans need to get your panties out of a wad about the word social.

Social just means people. The latin origin of the word means friend. Do you have a problem with Social Gatherings! Do you have a problem being social?
Do you understand what social problems are? Do you understand what being Socially inept is? Do you know what social insects and animals are? How about Social Drinker?

Are you able to differentiate all of these entities I just mentioned with Socialism.

Are you able to differentiate Social Needs Vs. Socialism?

I doubt it, because you only are educated enough to know one use of the term Social- and to you it means Socialism.

And you are also too ignorant to even understand what Socialism is.

Do you even understand the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Name one country that is a Communist country! Name one country that is a Socialist country?

Do either one of them look like the United States?

Well then STFU about the word Social then- and stop foolishly trying to give it negative connotations!

Because when you do that, you are just demonstrating your ignorance and challenges with knowledge and the English language!

 

[montgomery]

It's about whether a claim you make will work as you claim.

It's about whether or not bleeding hearts like you will provide for those to which you state care and do it with YOUR money instead of demanding others be forced to do it.

What's your point. We Canadians have made the choice to look after everybody's health care and we're able to do it for close to half the cost per capita. And there sure aren't many Canadians trying to change it. You will hear some complaining and some horrible claims about our health care system but they're usually coming from a far right think tank, the Fraser Institute. There's a lot of money to be made in health care and that's their ambition.

Our health care system is rated better than the US's and it' much cheaper to provide to all the people. I can't see how your criticism of our system is based on anything more than some principle you consider important?

 

[CFM]

What's your point. We Canadians have made the choice to look after everybody's health care and we're able to do it for close to half the cost per capita. And there sure aren't many Canadians trying to change it. You will hear some complaining and some horrible claims about our health care system but they're usually coming from a far right think tank, the Fraser Institute. There's a lot of money to be made in health care and that's their ambition.

Our health care system is rated better than the US's and it' much cheaper to provide to all the people. I can't see how your criticism of our system is based on anything more than some principle you consider important?

My healthcare and coverage are excellent. Since the only one to which I hold a responsibility is ME and MY family, I don't really give a fuck about you or anyone else. I'm not in it for others to have something that will costs me more.

 

[montgomery]

So the Canadian government doesn't decide/control doctor's salaries, the cost of drugs, hospital cost and reimbursements and qualifying procedures and medical equipment, right? Who does all of that? I need to know.

The Canadian system is criticized for not having enough MRI machines and other modern technology. It's true. But there's another truth for you to understand.

In Canada a doctor doesn't order an MRI for a patient when an ordinary X-ray will do. The difference is that the high cost of the MRI is carried to the patient. It's a 'for profit' system in the US and that's the way capitalism works.

Don't try to argue that Canadians get lower quality because we know that's not true. Wait times are open for discussion though but be aware that we Canadians can defend that issue too.

 

[montgomery]

My healthcare and coverage are excellent. Since the only one to which I hold a responsibility is ME and MY family, I don't really give a fuck about you or anyone else. I'm not in it for others to have something that will costs me more.

It seemed that you wanted to have a discussion. If not then that's fine with me.

What are you doing on this thread? It couldn't be for any other reason than to try to prove your system is better and cheaper. Unless it's to express some pent up rage and hate for your fellow Americans.

You can call me, I won't bother you on this thread anymore until you show you're interested.

 

[CFM]

It seemed that you wanted to have a discussion. If not then that's fine with me.

What are you doing on this thread? It couldn't be for any other reason than to try to prove your system is better and cheaper. Unless it's to express some pent up rage and hate for your fellow Americans.

You can call me, I won't bother you on this thread anymore until you show you're interested.

We've had it. You and I disagree. You can believe what you want but you seem to be the one that thinks I shouldn't do the same.

Expecting others to do for themselves instead of constantly looking to the government when they refuse to do so isn't rage or hate. The people that refuse and demand the government do it for them hate themselves enough to not care about themselves.

I do see your motivation. You can't defend what you support so you run like a coward then blame it on me. It's OK. Hopefully that shitty care you get will do you in sooner than later.

 

[montgomery]

Here we go with semantics again.

You Republicans need to get your panties out of a wad about the word social.

Social just means people. The latin origin of the word means friend. Do you have a problem with Social Gatherings! Do you have a problem being social?
Do you understand what social problems are? Do you understand what being Socially inept is? Do you know what social insects and animals are? How about Social Drinker?

Are you able to differentiate all of these entities I just mentioned with Socialism.

Are you able to differentiate Social Needs Vs. Socialism?

I doubt it, because you only are educated enough to know one use of the term Social- and to you it means Socialism.

And you are also too ignorant to even understand what Socialism is.

Do you even understand the difference between Socialism and Communism?

Name one country that is a Communist country! Name one country that is a Socialist country?

Do either one of them look like the United States?

Well then STFU about the word Social then- and stop foolishly trying to give it negative connotations!

Because when you do that, you are just demonstrating your ignorance and challenges with knowledge and the English language!

Chris Hedges' explanation for the reason why the Democratic party isn't leftist is because it became a bad word during the cold war. He understands that it was purposely stigmatized on purpose by the ruling elite. And that's the reason why Americans have to stop being snookered by both major parties.

I'm sure you know that but it's always worth repeating. It's the reason why the word 'socialism' is not accepted and it's going to take quite a while to change that. Even now as the Soviet Union is no longer and Russia is demonized to take it's place as the evil boogeyman.

 

[montgomery]

We've had it. You and I disagree. You can believe what you want but you seem to be the one that thinks I shouldn't do the same.

No, you didn't understand what I said. I'm happy with you choosing to do what you want. You want a discussion on health care and I'm willing to give you one. You can opt out any time.

Expecting others to do for themselves instead of constantly looking to the government when they refuse to do so isn't rage or hate. The people that refuse and demand the government do it for them hate themselves enough to not care about themselves.

I hear you and am very familiar with your argument. But it's not enough to change my mind because our health care is better and much cheaper. In fact, I'm going to claim to be the true capitalist. I'm being totally consistent with capitalism.

I do see your motivation. You can't defend what you support so you run like a coward then blame it on me. It's OK. Hopefully that shitty care you get will do you in sooner than later.

The health care Canadians receive isn't shitty, it's rated better than yours. If you want to discuss waiting lines then I'll be happy to discuss that too. I'm leaving it entirely up to you now that you have demonstrated an interest in the discussion. Why did you pretend that you had no interest?

 

[CFM]

No, you didn't understand what I said. I'm happy with you choosing to do what you want. You want a discussion on health care and I'm willing to give you one. You can opt out any time.



I hear you and am very familiar with your argument. But it's not enough to change my mind because our health care is better and much cheaper. In fact, I'm going to claim to be the true capitalist. I'm being totally consistent with capitalism.



The health care Canadians receive isn't shitty, it's rated better than yours. If you want to discuss waiting lines then I'll be happy to discuss that too. I'm leaving it entirely up to you now that you have demonstrated an interest in the discussion. Why did you pretend that you had no interest?

You don't want discussion. You want people to agree with what you say.

You're anything but a capitalist based on what you support. If you were, you wouldn't have a problem with health insurance companies making a profit.

Why do you pretend that what you have is anything but socialism? I thought you said you were a capitalist. Lying about it doesn't work very well in your favor. Why do you lie in order to push nonsense?

 

[montgomery]

You don't want discussion. You want people to agree with what you say.

You're anything but a capitalist based on what you support. If you were, you wouldn't have a problem with health insurance companies making a profit.

Why do you pretend that what you have is anything but socialism? I thought you said you were a capitalist. Lying about it doesn't work very well in your favor. Why do you lie in order to push nonsense?

Glad you're back again! I have no problem with any free enterprise company making a profit. I just don't want to have to pay more for less in order to contribute to their profits. What's wrong with that? Aren't you the same?

I subscribe to capitalism and Canada is definitely a capitalist country. Are you interested in knowing and learning how our sort of capitalism differs from yours?

Neither system is pure capitalism and you will know of some of the reasons why yours isn't either. Ours is capitalism with a little more socialism in the mix and we want it that way because it works very well for the people.

It's not a stagnant thing because every 4 years, or less, we have an election that is closely fought by our two major political parties. Sometimes the Conseravites win and they swing the country a little more to the right. But they never get brave enough to touch our health care system because that would be suicidal.

You know what suicidal means with your own government. It's especially apparent in your government isn't it. Politicians on both sides only take an honest stand when they don't have to worry about re-election.

But I digress; let's stay with health care.

 

[montgomery]

Thank you for the discussion CFM! I think it's could be a lot better on this forum with more people of your political persuasion. There's no benefit in outnumbering you and abusing you for your politics. There's a lot of benefit in civil discussion!

 

[montgomery]

The political right in the US have lost all their energy to debate health care now. They're pretty much accepting it as what is coming soon. Witness this discussion in which CFM does nothing but bark about some imaginary free enterprise problem with universal health care, then gives up and runs away when faced with a decent discussion. He's a demonstration of about as good as it gets from the barking mutts!

 

[kudzu]

The political right in the US have lost all their energy to debate health care now. They're pretty much accepting it as what is coming soon. Witness this discussion in which CFM does nothing but bark about some imaginary free enterprise problem with universal health care, then gives up and runs away when faced with a decent discussion. He's a demonstration of about as good as it gets from the barking mutts!

If a person is all about parroting other uniformed people, nothing more can be expected. That's what I meant about "incurious".. What has happened that Americans don't question or do research or listen to those in the field?

I get why Trump is such a dumb slob, but the average American has got to be smarter than that.