Venezuelan Troops Seize Control of Toilet Paper Factories

blackascoal said:
Surely then you must be talking about the OP .. "Some people do reach for any and every excuse to prop up a failure, but I expect a bit more than stories about something that isn't happening as proof of the failure of the US."

What I posted wasn't proof of failure in the US .. it was proof that shortages at any particular time is no demonstration of complete failure .. as suggested by the OP and those who agreed with it.

Intelligent people should know that. Look at our own history.
Click to expand...

No, I'm talking about your post of supposed "shortages" in the US due to some people traveling to a relatively nearby store. I read the articles, the argument was weak. When I go to the store there is toilet paper, because our government actually learned from the price fixing mistake back in Nixon's time. Venezuela is trying to fix price fixing with force, it's idiotic and totalitarian. When I go to the store there is food, whatever I want all the time. When I go to the store I can even buy water, although my well is more than sufficient.

All the "doom" in your articles is wasted on fat Americans who can get what they want when they want it. Tell me again how it is the same in the US because I have to search for toilet paper desperately (supposedly because I live rurally).. Tell me again how often our military took over more companies because they stopped producing when they couldn't make money on their investment. Tell me all about it. Until then, look at the failure of Venezuela, try to prop it up more with "The US is short on fresh food! I can tell because rural residents travel a bit to get to a grocery store!"
 
Damocles said:
No, I'm talking about your post of supposed "shortages" in the US due to some people traveling to a relatively nearby store. I read the articles, the argument was weak. When I go to the store there is toilet paper, because our government actually learned from the price fixing mistake back in Nixon's time. Venezuela is trying to fix price fixing with force, it's idiotic and totalitarian. When I go to the store there is food, whatever I want all the time. When I go to the store I can even buy water, although my well is more than sufficient.

All the "doom" in your articles is wasted on fat Americans who can get what they want when they want it. Tell me again how it is the same in the US because I have to search for toilet paper desperately (supposedly because I live rurally).. Tell me again how often our military took over more companies because they stopped producing when they couldn't make money on their investment. Tell me all about it. Until then, look at the failure of Venezuela, try to prop it up more with "The US is short on fresh food! I can tell because rural residents travel a bit to get to a grocery store!"
Click to expand...

However you want to interpret this is entirely up to you. It means nothing to me, especially considering that you choose to attempt to lecture me about researching selective articles to denigrate soemthing you don't like without ever realizing that the OP is exactly such an article.

I've already demonstrated the idiocy of that without you sir.
 
Truth Detector said:
What about it? You think it was caused by Republicans? REALLY?
Click to expand...
Well yes,,,,, but I can't remember all of what went on.

Besides,,, an example was asked for, and Nixon was a bunch of crap anyway.

He kept us in a so called war so he could get re-elected. I remember it just like it was yesterday.
 
blackascoal said:
• As you can see in the graphic chart, Venezuela's inflation has fluctuated since 1999. Inflation now stands at 31.6% compared with 23.6% in 1999
Click to expand...

and now according to the OP its 45%.....how does high inflation impact the poorest?.....even if there WAS toilet paper they couldn't afford to shit......
 
I doubt they are accurate in any society which has a 42% inflation rate.....evrything they need costs half again as much every year and you think improvement is actually possible?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I doubt they are accurate in any society which has a 42% inflation rate.....evrything they need costs half again as much every year and you think improvement is actually possible?.....
Click to expand...

You doubt the voracity of the UN, World Health Organization, and every other independent organization that has determined the facts you so easily reject because they don't fit the narrative that's been drilled into your head.

That explains everything. :0)
 
blackascoal said:
You doubt the voracity of the UN, World Health Organization, and every other independent organization that has determined the facts you so easily reject because they don't fit the narrative that's been drilled into your head.
Click to expand...

from your link....
Poverty has decreased - in 1999, 23.4% of the population were recorded as being in extreme poverty, this fell to 8.5% in 2011 according to official government figures
Click to expand...

so the info came from the Venezuelan government, not any independent organization....and they have officially declared fewer people are living in poverty even though it costs 42% more to obtain basic needs than it did only a year ago?.......has it been your experience that poor people can survive high inflation better than rich people?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
from your link....


so the info came from the Venezuelan government, not any independent organization....and they have officially declared fewer people are living in poverty even though it costs 42% more to obtain basic needs than it did only a year ago?.......has it been your experience that poor people can survive high inflation better than rich people?.....
Click to expand...

I see .. so you missed all this ..

How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?

Using data gathered from sources such as the World Bank, the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), International Monetary Fund (IMF), Reuters, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the US Energy Information Administration (eia), the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) and the Instituto Nacional de Estadística, we have been able to gather a variety of key indicators that show how Venezuela has changed since 1999 when Chávez first assumed office. We've used the most recent data where possible.

- Unemployment has dropped from 14.5% of the total labour force in 1999 to 7.6% in 2009
• Population has increased from 23,867,000 in 1999 to 29,278,000 in 2011. The annual population growth was 1.5% in 2011 compared with 1.9% in 1999
• GDP per capita has risen from $4,105 to $10,801 in 2011
• As you can see in the graphic chart, Venezuela's inflation has fluctuated since 1999. Inflation now stands at 31.6% compared with 23.6% in 1999
• Venezuela has a complicated history concerning currency exchange rates. Compared with 1999 when the exchange rate was under one bolivar to the US dollar, the latest figures from Reuters place it at 4.3 Bolivars to one dollar
• Poverty has decreased - in 1999, 23.4% of the population were recorded as being in extreme poverty, this fell to 8.5% in 2011 according to official government figures
• Infant mortality is now lower than in 1999 - from a rate of 20 per 1,000 live births then to a rate of 13 per 1,000 live births in 2011
• Violence has been a key concern in Venezuela for some time - figures from the UNODC state that the murder rate has risen since 1999. In 2011 the intentional homicide rate per 100,000 population was 45.1 compared with 25.0 just twelve years earlier
• Oil exports have boomed - Venezuela has one of the top proven oil reserves in the world and in 2011 Opec put the country's net oil export revenues at $60bn. In 1999 it stood at $14.4bn
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/oct/04/venezuela-hugo-chavez-election-data

Venezuelans’ Quality of Life Improved in UN Index Under Chavez

Venezuelans’ quality of life improved at the third-fastest pace worldwide and income inequality narrowed during the presidency of Hugo Chavez, who tapped the world’s biggest oil reserves to aid the poor.

Venezuela moved up seven spots to 73 out of 187 countries in the United Nation’s index of human development from 2006 to 2011, a period that covers the latter half of Chavez’s rule, which ended with his death March 5. That progress trails only Cuba and Hong Kong in the index, which is based on life expectancy, health and education levels.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...f-life-improved-in-un-index-under-chavez.html

I said that the quality of life for Venezuelans has been improved exponentially from before Chavez took office, and there is the proof that you accidentally skipped right over.

RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE it says "Using data gathered from sources such as the World Bank, the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), International Monetary Fund (IMF), Reuters, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the US Energy Information Administration (eia), the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) and the Instituto Nacional de Estadística, we have been able to gather a variety of key indicators that show how Venezuela has changed since 1999 when Chávez first assumed office."

AND includes "the United Nation’s index of human development from 2006 to 2011"

I did not say that Venezuela was utopia .. you don't fucking live in utopia.

You, like most partisans, don't have the intellectual honesty to even discuss the issues.
 
blackascoal said:
I see .. so you missed all this ..

How did Venezuela change under Hugo Chávez?

Using data gathered from sources such as the World Bank, the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), International Monetary Fund (IMF), Reuters, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), the US Energy Information Administration (eia), the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) and the Instituto Nacional de Estadística, we have been able to gather a variety of key indicators that show how Venezuela has changed since 1999 when Chávez first assumed office. We've used the most recent data where possible.

- Unemployment has dropped from 14.5% of the total labour force in 1999 to 7.6% in 2009
Click to expand...

yet...January, 2012....
Venezuela ranks second in the world for having the highest inflation rate combined with the highest unemployment rate.

According to the “Misery Index” published by British magazine, “The Economist”, the only country worse than Venezuela as defined by these indicators, is Macedonia.

The report used data from the past 12 months, which shows that Venezuela has an inflation rate of 27.6% and an unemployment rate of almost 10%.

Despite having the third largest petroleum reserves in the world, the country has had a prolonged economic crisis in which currency value has fallen and foreign investment is minimal.
Click to expand...
http://www.argentinaindependent.com/currentaffairs/newsfromlatinamerica/venezuela-inflation-and-unemployment-nearly-worst-in-the-world/

does the fact I bring this to your attention mean I lack intellectual honesty?......
 
I don't remember long lines in 73....I remember long lines in 79....
gas_line505x618.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top