What is hell?

[Into the Night]

Okay, I'm glad we've established that for all their anger at Christianity, American atheists largely owe their moral conscience to a cultural memory of the Christian Bible.

It only took me five years to get that confession. A bevy of Internet atheists have always complained to me they have no links or cultural debts to Christianity, and the moral values they have are either just from 'common sense', or they derived them independently by rational analysis.

Atheism isn't anger. The Church of No God is a religion and harbors much anger.

 

[Daylight63]

My friends were raised as atheist, their parent were atheist. Do you think they encountered Christian values from Christianity? I don’t. They had little knowledge of anything Christian or the Bible. I believe they developed their morals from common sense, our legal system and by rational thinking.

It is reasonable to assume that one picks up the morality of the society they live and exist in, regardless of their "training". It is reasonable to assume that the standard "Judeo-Christian morality" is something they have in their heads even if raised as atheists.

The debate really centers on: just because it is written in Judeo-Christian texts does not mean it doesn't have its own independent existence as an instinctual set of actions for a social animal.

The other poster (Cypress) seems to think that because someone WROTE IT DOWN in the Bible that it means the BIble is the SOURCE of the information rather than being a mere "way point" along the way from instinct to written communication.

 

[Daylight63]

Atheism isn't anger. The Church of No God is a religion and harbors much anger.

The only person who seems really angry is Cypress. He seems genuinely upset when others aren't as bent as he is about atheism. One can always tell when a person is the type of person for whom "all accusations are confessions".

 

[Daylight63]

But you invest considerable time and effort reading and responding to my posts, while on the other hand I rarely read your threads and posts.

So you obviously desire to 'spend time' with me.

You expend a LOT of time keeping track of who interacts with you.

Are you lonely? Is this your only outlet? Sorry to hear that.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No, one need only know what the meaning of words is. If you weren't near death then it wasn't an NDE.
Words have meaning.

I cannot find anyone on this forum with that name.

Agreed. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Probably couldn't make it very far in college and wants to feel like it wasn't all wasted effort on his part. I've seen people like that all over the place.
Cypress isn't THAT uneducated.

Yes, Perry, words have meaning. There's a difference between being threatened with death and being near death or, as in my experience, actually being dead and crossing over into the afterlife.

Of course you can't.

Disagreed, Perry, but your obsession with him is interesting to me. I believe you have a low IQ or brain damage and you seek to compensate by attacking people smarter and better educated than yourself. What also interests me is why you go after @Cypress and not me. Was it because I hammered you over your accusations I was a pedophile like Prince Andrew?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You expend a LOT of time keeping track of who interacts with you.

Are you lonely? Is this your only outlet? Sorry to hear that.

QED, Perry.

Do you still have your rock collection?

 

[Daylight63]

Yes, Perry, words have meaning.

Why did you just make up a name for me? I'm genuinely confused.

There's a difference between being threatened with death and being near death or,

But you said your life was not endangered. So you weren't "near" anything but living.

Perhaps you should just say you hallucinated. That way you won't have to explain how you weren't near death but had a near death experience.

as in my experience, actually being dead and crossing over into the afterlife.

So you were DEAD yet your life wasn't endangered.

I don't think you use words in the standard way.

 

[Daylight63]

QED, Perry.

Do you still have your rock collection?

Rock collection??????

You people really need to find your friend because I don't think I'm him.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed. The culture in which we each are raised is the one that instills within us our morals.

The social justice gospel of the New Testament and the Jewish prophets is utterly unique in ancient history. There is no other ancient literature that systematically speaks to a moral imperative to raise up the poor and oppressed, to attend to the diseased, to the widowed, to the orphans. There is no other ancient literature that so clearly states all human life has equal innate value.

I can kid myself and believe that I came up with the social justice gospel on my own. But the truth is I inherited an admiration for the social gospel because of a two thousand year old cultural memory of the biblical ethos.

I think the way east Asian culture puts so much emphasis on familial harmony, duty, obligation, respect for authority, and social hierarchy is because of the cultural memory of a Confucian ethos. Even Chinese atheists probably have something of a Confucian ethos, whether they realize it or not.

 

[Daylight63]

The social justice gospel of the New Testament and the Jewish prophets is utterly unique in ancient history.

Actually predates the writing of the prophets. The rules are clearly laid out in the Pentateuch.

There is no other ancient literature that systematically speaks to a moral imperative to raise up the poor and oppressed, to attend to the diseased, to the widowed, to the orphans. There is no other ancient literature that so clearly states all human life has equal innate value.

Universal negative claim. Illogical.

I can kid myself and believe that I came up with the social justice gospel on my own.

No one is arguing that point. But as per usual you seem incapable of debating the point AS PRESENTED. Which is a pretty consistent problem for you.

I think the way east Asian culture puts so much emphasis on familial harmony, duty, obligation, respect for authority, and social hierarchy is because of the cultural memory of a Confucian ethos. Even Chinese atheists probably have something of a Confucian ethos, whether they realize it or not.

You should read "Whose in Charge" by Gazzanigga. There's a really cool study they did comparing mental function for people raised in western cultures and those raised in eastern cultures. Some astounding stuff.

Just in case you ever get a wild hair and actually want to read something. It's a good book. Probably a bit above your normal reading fare but still interesting.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Why did you just make up a name for me? I'm genuinely confused.

But you said your life was not endangered. So you weren't "near" anything but living.
Perhaps you should just say you hallucinated. That way you won't have to explain how you weren't near death but had a near death experience.

So you were DEAD yet your life wasn't endangered.

I don't think

Because it was the first one you used. Like Fredo who also frequently changed his usernames, or Sybil with his multiple socks, I like sticking with one name. Yours is Perry. Perry PhD, Perry Putz, and Perry Penis Puller all work too.

Again, Perry, words have meaning. You said "threatened" and now you are flip-flopping around such as using "endangered". It's just more evidence your thinking is flawed and scattered.

Again, you prove your thinking is flawed, Perry. If I was dead, how could I be endangered?

Agreed, you don't think. Is it genetic or did you suffer an injury?

 

[ZenMode]

My friends were raised as atheist, their parent were atheist. Do you think they encountered Christian values from Christianity? I don’t. They had little knowledge of anything Christian or the Bible. I believe they developed their morals from common sense, our legal system and by rational thinking.

Christians like to take credit for commonsense ideas like "don't steal your neighbor's shit" and "don't kill your neighbor" so, in their minds, we've ALL encountered Christian values.

 

[ZenMode]

Word games. Animals have a language. You just don't understand it.

Straw man, you insufferable fool. I never said they don't have language. I never said we understood their language. There are different levels of language. Educate yourself. I'm not your English sherpa, nor am I participating in more of your idiocy.

Sink or swim, princess.

 

[ZenMode]

Denying your own posts won't work, void. Neither will any of your word games. Neither will any of your inversions or insults.

And here's where I get off the ride. You had (yet) another chance.

 

[Daylight63]

Again, Perry, words have meaning. You said "threatened" and now you are flip-flopping around such as using "endangered". It's just more evidence your thinking is flawed and scattered.

If you weren't near death it isn't an NDE.

Sorry I don't make the rules.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You should read "Whose in Charge" by Gazzanigga. There's a really cool study they did comparing mental function for people raised in western cultures and those raised in eastern cultures. Some astounding stuff.

Just in case you ever get a wild hair and actually want to read something. It's a good book. Probably a bit above your normal reading fare but still interesting.

Your constant passive-aggressive behavior is a mask that hides a weak-willed, insecure person. It's one reason I don't fault you much, Perry. While retards and other mental defectives need to be restrained from harming themselves or others, their ability to choose is very limited.

What Makes People Passive-Aggressive? 6 Possible Causes

Passive-aggression may provide perceived benefits in the short-term, but it can cause significant personal damage in the long term.

www.psychologytoday.com

In short, passive-aggressiveness is anger, hostility, and/or learned helplessness in disguise, expressed in a covert, underhanded way to "even the score," and with the hope of "getting away with it." ...

...Passive-aggressive behavior often arises when an individual feels powerless and lacks a strong voice in a challenging environment. If the negative life experience is salient enough to be psychologically anchored, one’s passive-aggressive instinct may emerge repeatedly in other, approximating dynamics (such as a husband who unconsciously deals with his mother issues through his wife). The passive-aggressive, out of the fear of being dominated once more, may utilize a set of survival and resistance strategies to avoid (in his or her perception) being victimized again.

Although passive-aggression may derive temporary perceived benefits in the short-term, it can cause significant personal and/or professional damage in the long run. The strong alternative to passive-aggressiveness is to exercise incisive self-awareness, and practice highly effective communication and relational skills.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If you weren't near death it isn't an NDE.

Sorry I don't make the rules.

Then what was it, Perry?

 

[Daylight63]

Your constant passive-aggressive behavior

So since I'm not angry like you and Cypress seem to really really want me to be I'm "passive aggressive"?

Wow. Did you guys dig up a famous logician and fuck his corpse for fun?

is a mask that hides a weak-willed, insecure person.

I'd say the person who demands I always be angry is the insecure one.

I'd also say the person who can't actually address the topic but always insists on personally attacking more for no reason is equally insecure.

Try discussing the TOPIC. Let's see how "secure" you are when the brain is required.

 

[Neoclitorus]

Okay. But according to you, this act is included in your definition of 'morality'.


Uttering an expression does not break down society.

Mantra 1a. Lame.

it's not causal, merely desriptive of a fallen state of man.

 

[Daylight63]

Then what was it, Perry?

Probably just plain ol' Hallucination.

If you weren't near death then it wasn't a near death experience. This is literally about as simple a concept as one can achieve. A thing is what it is and not some other thing.

Basic, elementary school reasoning.