What is hell?

[Into the Night]

Yeah, this isn't the only forum where I had to keep repeating the fact that I hate liberalism, Marxism, socialism etc. I have have 3 ultra liberal brothers, and I certainly don't hate them. If possible I would change my moniker to liberalismhater.

I hear ya. This sort of thing is becoming quite common. This polarization in America has been tough on many families.

 

[Into the Night]

Yeah, I doubt very much that there were jews involved in developing our Constitution or actually fought in the Revolutionary War.

There were Jews on both sides of the revolutionary war.

 

[Into the Night]

Ahhh, now I get it. When I say you aren't a Christian, I mean you don't follow the words of Jesus. When you claim to be a Christian, you mean you're a White Nationalist Christian. Now it all makes sense.

You don't get to speak for God, Sybil.

White Christian nationalism — exploited by an authoritarian madman, trumpeted by bigoted white evangelical accomplices and amplified by the quirks of the electoral college — has indeed come into remarkable power. PRRI’s new study demonstrates the danger of this worldview, but it also provides a reality check on the actual reach of white Christian nationalism among all Americans....

Mindless cut and paste.

...At the violent January 6 insurrection

There was no insurrection, Sybil.

after Trump’s 2020 loss,

Trump didn't lose the 2020 election. There was no election in 2020, Sybil, due to Democrat election fraud.

we saw a disturbing number of Christian symbols intermingled with Trump flags, Confederate flags and other white supremacist symbols. We see the connection between Christian nationalism and support for political violence clearly in the data.

So you are disturbed by Christian symbols. Nah. I just think you're disturbed.

 

[Cypress]

Popular only for those seeking to control others. For those seeking a better life, not so much.

It seems to me some of the fundamentalist evangelical churches use fire and brimstone to scare people into the pews.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem consistent to complain that God allows a world to have evil in it, but then also complain when God judges and punishes evil.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It seems to me some of the fundamentalist evangelical churches use fire and brimstone to scare people into the pews.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem consistent to complain that God allows a world to have evil in it, but then also complain when God judges and punishes evil.

OR people were already in the pews and the priests/pastors used fire and brimstone to scare them into specific behaviors.

Protestants believed in a personal God. A God that would watch over them if they prayed hard enough. The "fire and brimstone" preachings were to point out that prayers weren't enough and that their actions had to coincide with Christian behavior. It wasn't to drag them into the pews, it was to guide them on why they were there.

I do not believe God punishes evil. I believe people choose to be evil and, therefore, willfully separate themselves from God. It's akin to an 18 year old not liking to live under their parents rule and move out to live on their own then whine there's no one to do the cooking, cleaning, laundry or pay the bills anymore. Either they choose to willingly live with their parents under certain mature rules such as clean up after themselves and do chores to help out or they are on their own.

Why would God be different? Either we choose to live in the light of God or we choose to live in the darkness.

 

[Cypress]

OR people were already in the pews and the priests/pastors used fire and brimstone to scare them into specific behaviors.

Protestants believed in a personal God. A God that would watch over them if they prayed hard enough. The "fire and brimstone" preachings were to point out that prayers weren't enough and that their actions had to coincide with Christian behavior. It wasn't to drag them into the pews, it was to guide them on why they were there.

I do not believe God punishes evil. I believe people choose to be evil and, therefore, willfully separate themselves from God. It's akin to an 18 year old not liking to live under their parents rule and move out to live on their own then whine there's no one to do the cooking, cleaning, laundry or pay the bills anymore. Either they choose to willingly live with their parents under certain mature rules such as clean up after themselves and do chores to help out or they are on their own.

Why would God be different? Either we choose to live in the light of God or we choose to live in the darkness.

Good point about the fire and brimstone churches.

I should make clear I was talking about people like Richard Dawkins who complains about evil being allowed in the world, but then also complains that God judges and punishes evil.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Good point about the fire and brimstone churches.

I should make clear I was talking about people like Richard Dawkins who complains about evil being allowed in the world, but then also complains that God judges and punishes evil.

Dawkins is better at bilking his fans out of money through selling books and tickets to speeches than he is at philosophy.

If existence continues beyond the mortal, then our temporary existence as mortals can be seen as the equivalent of kids going to school. Most kids dislike school and prefer to play. Being forced to go to school and being punished for certain behaviors might be seen by them as being unfair or even evil.

It's odd to me, although understandable, that high school kids may think HS is "everything" even to the point of murder although suicide is the much more common result. They can't see that their real life begins after HS, not during, but convincing them of that truism can be problematic.

The same philosophy applies to our mortal 70 years (80 years for some) on Earth. Like HS, one day this will end and our "real life" begins.

Psalm 90:10​

The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

 

[Cypress]

Dawkins is better at bilking his fans out of money through selling books and tickets to speeches than he is at philosophy.

If existence continues beyond the mortal, then our temporary existence as mortals can be seen as the equivalent of kids going to school. Most kids dislike school and prefer to play. Being forced to go to school and being punished for certain behaviors might be seen by them as being unfair or even evil.

It's odd to me, although understandable, that high school kids may think HS is "everything" even to the point of murder although suicide is the much more common result. They can't see that their real life begins after HS, not during, but convincing them of that truism can be problematic.

The same philosophy applies to our mortal 70 years (80 years for some) on Earth. Like HS, one day this will end and our "real life" begins.

Psalm 90:10​

The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.

There are those documented cases of Hindu children having memories of a previous life, and the details supposedly can be verified by investigation, although these kind of stories never seem to have sufficient independent corroboration.

For me as agnostic, I don't get angry or stressed about Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, or Zoroastrian concepts of hell. I don't understand why people like Richard Dawkins, who are certain there is no God, get so worked up and angry about it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You dumb uneducated goy

Jews were present at Bunker Hill, Valley Forge, and other battle sites throughout the colonies.

During the American Revolution, a significant number of Jews, disproportionate to their small population, fought for the Patriot cause, including notable figures like Francis Salvador, Haym Salomon, and Mordecai Sheftall.

The Revolutionary War and the Jews | My Jewish Learning

While some Jews fought, others suffered at the hands of the British.

www.myjewishlearning.com

It's just proof that LibHater is evil and goes against Christian beliefs. He claims to be a "Christian" but is really a White Nationalist Christian AKA domestic enemy of the Constitution.

 

[Cypress]

It's just proof that LibHater is evil and goes against Christian beliefs. He claims to be a "Christian" but is really a White Nationalist Christian AKA domestic enemy of the Constitution.

United Church of Christ is by reputation a socially liberal branch of Protestantism. I think UCC was the Obamas church.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

There are those documented cases of Hindu children having memories of a previous life, and the details supposedly can be verified by investigation, although these kind of stories never seem to have sufficient independent corroboration.

For me as agnostic, I don't get angry or stressed about Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, or Zoroastrian concepts of hell. I don't understand why people like Richard Dawkins, who are certain there is no God, get so worked up and angry about it.

I've never seen any factual evidence of magic, reincarnation or anything that violates the laws of physics. There are plenty of mysteries in the Universe, but I believe God created the laws for a purpose and gave us brains with the expectation that we'd use them.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

United Church of Christ is by reputation a socially liberal branch of Protestantism. I think UCC was the Obamas church.

There are many Christian churches speaking out against "White Christian Nationalism" and "Prosperity Christianity", both of which are components of the Party of Trump.

How Mainline Protestant churches are addressing Christian nationalism – Baptist News Global

"It is helpful for laity to know how their denomination has shown up to (or been absent from) the fight against Christian nationalism."

baptistnews.com

 

[Daylight63]

I don't understand why people like Richard Dawkins, who are certain there is no God, get so worked up and angry about it.

Let me explain it to you then.

Currently our country is beholden to a religious subsect that has had an outsized impact on women's bodily autonomy. Now they are dipping their toes into other legislation in Texas in relation to "morality".

These people often have as their guiding principal that their God will be a fierce partisan for them and punish whoever stands in their way with eternal torment. But more importantly they feel that if they FAIL TO GET OTHERS TO BELIEVE AS THEY DO they will potentially fail their God.

For them this isn't a fight over niceties of personal liberty, this is a fight for their IMMORTAL SOULS.

That's why those of us who follow both politics and religion push back so hard against the religious excess that pushes the corrosion of our society and pulls us back into the caves.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

(ALSO: you actually do get pissed at atheists for their lack of belief which is why you constantly attack them and characterize them exclusively as "Stalin" or Mao or Pol Pot. So please don't act like your "agnosticism" has you even tempered on the topic...you can lie to yourself but we can all see it)

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hi! My name is Perry PhD. I have a PhD in GeoChem. See?

Looks legit to me, Perry.

 

[Into the Night]

An invention to make religion more popular.

There is no hell - no real one, anyway. Of this I am 100% sure.

Oh it's real. It's a real state of being. It's a result of bad choices. You cannot escape the consequences of ANY choices!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Oh it's real. It's a real state of being. It's a result of bad choices. You cannot escape the consequences of ANY choices!

No worries, Sybil. God forgives the retarded and the insane so you're going to be fine.

 

[Cypress]

Let me explain it to you then.

Currently our country is beholden to a religious subsect that has had an outsized impact on women's bodily autonomy. Now they are dipping their toes into other legislation in Texas in relation to "morality".

That has nothing to do with hell from the perspective of agnostics and atheists.

If you want to get angry about reproductive rights, get mad about that. That doesn't explain getting mad about hell.

These people often have as their guiding principal that their God will be a fierce partisan for them and punish whoever stands in their way with eternal torment. But more importantly they feel that if they FAIL TO GET OTHERS TO BELIEVE AS THEY DO they will potentially fail their God.

For them this isn't a fight over niceties of personal liberty, this is a fight for their IMMORTAL SOULS.

That's why those of us who follow both politics and religion push back so hard against the religious excess that pushes the corrosion of our society and pulls us back into the caves.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

(ALSO: you actually do get pissed at atheists for their lack of belief which is why you constantly attack them and characterize them exclusively as "Stalin" or Mao or Pol Pot. So please don't act like your "agnosticism" has you even tempered on the topic...you can lie to yourself but we can all see it)

Still doesn't explain it.
If you want to get angry about civil rights, get mad about civil rights. That doesn't explain anything about getting mad about hell. If you don't believe in God or religion of any kind, it's unfathomable why you would get angry about a hell which does not exist.

 

[Into the Night]

Let me explain it to you then.

This should be good.

Currently our country is beholden to a religious subsect that has had an outsized impact on women's bodily autonomy.

What religion is this??? The closest I can think of is the Democrat abuse of women.

Now they are dipping their toes into other legislation in Texas in relation to "morality".

A religion has toes?????

These people often have as their guiding principal that their God will be a fierce partisan for them and punish whoever stands in their way with eternal torment.

You still haven't described what religion this is! Democrats that hate women is not a religion. It's abuse.

But more importantly they feel that if they FAIL TO GET OTHERS TO BELIEVE AS THEY DO they will potentially fail their God.

For them this isn't a fight over niceties of personal liberty, this is a fight for their IMMORTAL SOULS.

That's why those of us who follow both politics and religion push back so hard against the religious excess that pushes the corrosion of our society and pulls us back into the caves.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

You never described what this mysterious 'religion' is!

(ALSO: you actually do get pissed at atheists for their lack of belief

You are not an atheist. You have a belief in the Church of No God. That's a fundamentalist style religion. Richard Dawkins is not an atheist either. He has the same religion as you.

which is why you constantly attack them and characterize them exclusively as "Stalin" or Mao or Pol Pot.

Stalin is not a religion. Pol Pot is not a religion.

So please don't act like your "agnosticism" has you even tempered on the topic...you can lie to yourself but we can all see it)

Random phrases ignored.

I know exactly two people here that can any claim to being an atheist. You obviously don't even know what an atheist is or what the word means.

 

[Cypress]

Looks legit to me, Perry.

A PhD in sock puppets is another achievement of Perry.

 

[Into the Night]

No worries, Sybil. God forgives the retarded and the insane so you're going to be fine.

I am not you, Sybil.