What is the purpose of government?

Flash said:
I thought the topic was if no parties existed. Then, there would be no party agendas.
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People naturally group together. In a direct democracy political environment, such as a town meeting, it's natural that all the in-town store owners would have similar interests as would the out-of-town ranchers and farmers.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
People naturally group together. In a direct democracy political environment, such as a town meeting, it's natural that all the in-town store owners would have similar interests as would the out-of-town ranchers and farmers.
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Agreed, but those are loose alliances with no way to maintain cohesiveness or disciplining those who will not follow the "best interests" of the group. The discipline parties once imposed is long gone as Congress has become more democratic with more equality between the members. As a result, Congress gets a lot less done because everyone chooses to go his own way.
 
Flash said:
Agreed, but those are loose alliances with no way to maintain cohesiveness or disciplining those who will not follow the "best interests" of the group. The discipline parties once imposed is long gone as Congress has become more democratic with more equality between the members. As a result, Congress gets a lot less done because everyone chooses to go his own way.
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The groups will do as they please unless there's a law against an individual action. Why wouldn't the town business owners vote "Yes" on a tax on everyone to build a better Main Street while the ranchers/farmers are against any tax increases? Political groups grow based upon the rules in play.

Ever play Monopoly or Risk? Same behavior. LOL

What are you suggesting as a solution?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
The groups will do as they please unless there's a law against an individual action. Why wouldn't the town business owners vote "Yes" on a tax on everyone to build a better Main Street while the ranchers/farmers are against any tax increases? Political groups grow based upon the rules in play.

Ever play Monopoly or Risk? Same behavior. LOL

What are you suggesting as a solution?
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I think parties are serving that function. I said originally that without parties both elections and congressional legislation would be very difficult to function. I know many people oppose parties, but they developed for a reason. They would be more effective if leaders were stronger like they were before the reforms, but some don't want strong parties. The founders were more interested in government being deliberate and limited rather than effective and efficient.
 
Flash said:
I think parties are serving that function. I said originally that without parties both elections and congressional legislation would be very difficult to function. I know many people oppose parties, but they developed for a reason. They would be more effective if leaders were stronger like they were before the reforms, but some don't want strong parties. The founders were more interested in government being deliberate and limited rather than effective and efficient.
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I have no problem with parties; my problem is when parties become too powerful. The Republicans want only one party, one president and one country. They want to eliminate diversity in all things except what they like. Our government works best when there is balance.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
. The Republicans want only one party, one president and one country. They want to eliminate diversity in all things except what they like. Our government works best when there is balance.
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That is the same thing Republicans say about the Democrats. Are they both right; or, do you just think your side is right?
 
Flash said:
That is the same thing Republicans say about the Democrats. Are they both right; or, do you just think your side is right?
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The Republicans are actually doing it with their voting rule changes and redistricting. Their excuse to impose single party rule is "elections have consequences".

Example:
ExpressLane said:
Elections have consequences.
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Stone said:
Elections have consequences.
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Earl said:
Stolen elections have consequences.
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Dutch Uncle said:
The Republicans are actually doing it with their voting rule changes and redistricting. Their excuse to impose single party rule is "elections have consequences".

Example:
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Democrats are also redistricting to their advantage. Republicans just control more states. The NY districts are now being challenged in the courts.

Republicans have been passing voting laws for several years (IDs, etc.) and turnout has continued to increase even among Democratic groups.

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/why-voter-suppression-probably-wont-work/

I'm not seeking to defend Republicans but only point out those areas where politics is essentially the same between parties. I prefer to criticize the Republicans in those areas where they are truly wacky like election fraud, FBI involvement in the January 6 terrorist attacks, Obama's birthplace, the involvement of Cruz's father in JFK assassination, the "murder" of Seal Team Six, etc.
 
BidenPresident said:
Are you even from the United States? Seriously, you say stuff that ignores reality.
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It does not ignore reality. I ignore emotional partisan hyperbole that claims their party is the good guy and more moral, intelligent, and informed than the other which both sides claim.

I prefer more objective analysis over emotional, misinformed rants. During Trump's term every week or two liberal posters would claim "we've got him now" because of "inciting a riot," emoluments, some business dealing, 25th amendment, or something else most people knew would never occur. Now its the Republicans' turn to whine about Biden being a pedophile, having dementia, failing with Afghanistan, or for higher gas prices. They will continue to find fault with everything and claim Biden is through just like the Democrats did with Trump.
 
Flash said:
It does not ignore reality. I ignore emotional partisan hyperbole that claims their party is the good guy and more moral, intelligent, and informed than the other which both sides claim.

I prefer more objective analysis over emotional, misinformed rants. During Trump's term every week or two liberal posters would claim "we've got him now" because of "inciting a riot," emoluments, some business dealing, 25th amendment, or something else most people knew would never occur. Now its the Republicans' turn to whine about Biden being a pedophile, having dementia, failing with Afghanistan, or for higher gas prices. They will continue to find fault with everything and claim Biden is through just like the Democrats did with Trump.
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I can't take you seriously. You think killing a cop and injuring 200 makes the Democrats and Republicans the same.
 
BidenPresident said:
I can't take you seriously. You think killing a cop and injuring 200 makes the Democrats and Republicans the same.
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I was talking about the political parties and their tactics, not members of the public that were rioting. I clearly wrote that my comments were about tactics used by the parties which are the same and said I reserved more of my criticism of the Republicans to their truly wacky differences--like the voter fraud (although Hillary also claimed 2016 was not legitimate).

What cop was killed?
 
Flash said:
Democrats are also redistricting to their advantage. Republicans just control more states. The NY districts are now being challenged in the courts.

Republicans have been passing voting laws for several years (IDs, etc.) and turnout has continued to increase even among Democratic groups.

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/why-voter-suppression-probably-wont-work/

I'm not seeking to defend Republicans but only point out those areas where politics is essentially the same between parties. I prefer to criticize the Republicans in those areas where they are truly wacky like election fraud, FBI involvement in the January 6 terrorist attacks, Obama's birthplace, the involvement of Cruz's father in JFK assassination, the "murder" of Seal Team Six, etc.
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Do you agree with the practice? Do you think that was the intent of the Founders?
 
Flash said:
I was talking about the political parties and their tactics, not members of the public that were rioting. I clearly wrote that my comments were about tactics used by the parties which are the same and said I reserved more of my criticism of the Republicans to their truly wacky differences--like the voter fraud (although Hillary also claimed 2016 was not legitimate).

What cop was killed?
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Trump obviously organized the insurrection. You're just another right wing nutbag.
 
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