What they want....the answer

Thats a lot of ifs Gaffer. They've also tried before and failed miserably.

I don't know if they'd want to nuke Israel anyway. They would be destroying part of their holy land. Not to mention they'd irradiate its Arab neighbors.

This is not like the Soviets nuking a nation across an ocean. This is more like setting fire to your neighbors attached apartment. Not a good idea.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Also Gaffer as I said before even if they started Iranian like revolution in other states the countries it could happen in don't have an ability to produce quality armaments. All that ability lies outside of Muslim nations. Had the Muslims not rejected modernity and scientific advancement for centuries we might have cause to fear.

You yourself have said they are stuck in the medieval era. Hard to be afraid of medieval armies.
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Yes they have no industry to support their efforts. But they can get it through russia and china, and even france for a while. All they need is control of a country that does have the capcity to make the weapons they need and they are set to go. They don't create new technology they use what has been created. As I said most of their conquest would be in the form of iranian style revolutions. And we are not talking a quick conquest of the world. We are talking a slow progressive take over. Taking 20 years or more. Subject to change as all war plans are. It might take 40 years. each phase being extended as necessary.

iran wants nukes. Nukes can be used to get other states in the region to submit to their way of thinking. They are not ready to move yet. They have to get the others in the region under their control.

The russians and chinese will do business as usual as long as there are no overt moves against them. Their turn will come after the west has been crippled.

For the most part this country would have to be anihilated before a caliphate could be establish here.
 
Gaffer said:
They will not go head on with Israel until they can mount a united front against them. Then they will attack with everything they have and Israel will nuke em. Unless they can nuke Israel first.

But I don't think they will move against Israel until they can nullify the western powers and prevent intervention.

All they need is an inactive president in the US and plenty of media pr to divide the American people and they are set.
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They will not go head on with Israel until they can mount a united front against them

You appear to be unaware that the arabs hate and fear the persians only nominally less than they hate the israelis.

In thousands of years of recorded history, the arabs have never "united" with the persians in a "united front".

A smart, clever president would be aware of this, and be able to exploit the arab/persian divide. Like FDR did with the nazi/communist divide.

We, of course, have an ill-informed chimp sitting in the oval office. Supported by millions of his fans, who scream about some ill-defined and frankly, ludicrous "War on Islam"
 
IHateGovernment said:
Thats a lot of ifs Gaffer. They've also tried before and failed miserably.

I don't know if they'd want to nuke Israel anyway. They would be destroying part of their holy land. Not to mention they'd irradiate its Arab neighbors.

This is not like the Soviets nuking a nation across an ocean. This is more like setting fire to your neighbors attached apartment. Not a good idea.
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but they have a different mind set. They don't care how many of their kindred die as long as they come out on top. Dead muslims are just more martyrs of allah in their eyes.

One of the problems with the west is everyone thinks in terms of how we see things here. They see things totally alien to the way we do. They don't have hopes and dreams like we do they are concerned with death and how to die. Not building a future.

Their goal is to bring back the 12th imam. which can only occur when the whole world is dominated by islam. Like the second coming of christ but done by conquest of the world.

MAD worked because the soviets had just as much to lose as we did. The islamists don't care they will sacrifice as many as necessary to achieve their goals. They don't care if palistine is made unliveable.
 
Troglodyte27 said:
Ummm, to be picky, I think you meant

"Not all Mexicans speak Spanish"

otherwise you're claiming they speak, what, French?
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Same thing , other way around Trog :)
Anyway. Some of the speak native languages that predate the spanish conquistadores showing up. Indian type of languages. And speak no spanish.
This is showing up in some of the illegal immigrants. I was not aware of this until recently.
 
Gaffer as I have said it is not in Russia or Chinas efforts to materially support a worldwide Islamic revolution and expansion. They have their own problems with Muslim terrorists in their own country.

Bin Laden himself has said that one of the reasons he attacked the US is its support of Russia and China in its persecution of Chechens and Uighurs respectively.

Anyone calloborating with these oppressors will be seen as a traitor to Islam.

I still stand by my assertion that the Muslims will get no help not even from China or Russia. Those countries would sooner help us than Muslim terrorists.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Gaffer as I have said it is not in Russia or Chinas efforts to materially support a worldwide Islamic revolution and expansion. They have their own problems with Muslim terrorists in their own country.

Bin Laden himself has said that one of the reasons he attacked the US is its support of Russia and China in its persecution of Chechens and Uighurs respectively.

Anyone calloborating with these oppressors will be seen as a traitor to Islam.

I still stand by my assertion that the Muslims will get no help not even from China or Russia. Those countries would sooner help us than Muslim terrorists.
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Not to mention India. The Hindus are blood-enemies with muslims. OBL also hates india, and their suppression of muslim minorities.

The world's powers: India, China, Russia, United States, and Western Europe have little to fear of a "muslim takeover" of the world. Its just fear mongering.
 
but they have a different mind set. They don't care how many of their kindred die as long as they come out on top. Dead muslims are just more martyrs of allah in their eyes.

One of the problems with the west is everyone thinks in terms of how we see things here. They see things totally alien to the way we do. They don't have hopes and dreams like we do they are concerned with death and how to die. Not building a future.

Their goal is to bring back the 12th imam. which can only occur when the whole world is dominated by islam. Like the second coming of christ but done by conquest of the world.

MAD worked because the soviets had just as much to lose as we did. The islamists don't care they will sacrifice as many as necessary to achieve their goals. They don't care if palistine is made unliveable.

How can they take over the world if they nuke themselves? Also I think you underestimate the value of the holyland to the Muslims. They would die to be able to have Jerusalem under their control. They don't want to nuke the city if Iran does this expect many Muslims to abandon their cause.

The terrorists also do have something to lose. We can threaten to destroy the Kabbah in Mecca should such an act be carried out.
 
They don't have hopes and dreams like we do they are concerned with death and how to die. Not building a future.
//
I have to disagree with that. the jihaadists are as you describe, but they are a very minor part of the muslims. If they were not all so the ME and asia would be in horrific turmoil.
 
The idea of the Muslims creating a world wide caliphate requires numerous things that are incredibly unlikely to happen and requires completely ignoring geopolitics.

Trust me I know a lot about world politics and the social, ethnic and religious makeup of many many nations. The creation of a worldwide caliphate or even the resurrection of the old caliphate at its zenith is pure fantasy.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Gaffer as I have said it is not in Russia or Chinas efforts to materially support a worldwide Islamic revolution and expansion. They have their own problems with Muslim terrorists in their own country.

Bin Laden himself has said that one of the reasons he attacked the US is its support of Russia and China in its persecution of Chechens and Uighurs respectively.

Anyone calloborating with these oppressors will be seen as a traitor to Islam.

I still stand by my assertion that the Muslims will get no help not even from China or Russia. Those countries would sooner help us than Muslim terrorists.
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yet russia continues to assist iran with its nuclear ambitions and blocks our efforts to stop them from developing bombs. China continues dealing in arms supplies and buying their oil. And continues to block our efforts to stop the nuclear developements. yeah they are real concerned about the spread of islam.
 
IHateGovernment said:
The idea of the Muslims creating a world wide caliphate requires numerous things that are incredibly unlikely to happen and requires completely ignoring geopolitics.

Trust me I know a lot about world politics and the social, ethnic and religious makeup of many many nations. The creation of a worldwide caliphate or even the resurrection of the old caliphate at its zenith is pure fantasy.
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Or, more likely an GOP election strategy to energize its base, by getting the kool aid guzzlers and diaper-shitters to become so afraid to the point that they might think we will all die - and muslims will take over the world - if democrats are elected.

I notice this muslim caliphate talk wasn't around much, until the GOP election strategy of gay-bashing and illegal aliens fell flat on its face.
 
The thing is though is I don't think Gaffer is just some GOP mouthpiece. I'm afraid that he really thinks this has a good chance of happening.
 
You are right though about not talking about this before. Before it was bad enough we had to worry about terrorism. As that fear is waning we need a bigger and more menacing fear. Fear of losing not only our lives but our way of life and culture.
 
IHateGovernment said:
The thing is though is I don't think Gaffer is just some GOP mouthpiece. I'm afraid that he really thinks this has a good chance of happening.
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He admist he gets his news from "blogs", and is under the impression that all mainstream media is Democratic-controlled and therefore unreliable.

In short, he has propagandized himself with rightwing fear mongering, IMO.
 
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