What they want....the answer

IHateGovernment said:
The idea of the Muslims creating a world wide caliphate requires numerous things that are incredibly unlikely to happen and requires completely ignoring geopolitics.

Trust me I know a lot about world politics and the social, ethnic and religious makeup of many many nations. The creation of a worldwide caliphate or even the resurrection of the old caliphate at its zenith is pure fantasy.
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My post showed a basic plan. Agreed, a lot of extrodianry things would have to happen. And I don't think the islamist that want to do this have really considered the geopolitical situations that would occur. But an incite into their plans and goals makes it much easier to deal with a problem that is growing and could create a lot of misery throughout the world. Including a posible major war.

The creation of a world caliphate is a fantasy, but its one they believe in. And that belief is why we are dealing with things now in iraq and afganistan. Its a very dangerous belief.
 
IHateGovernment said:
You are right though about not talking about this before. Before it was bad enough we had to worry about terrorism. As that fear is waning we need a bigger and more menacing fear. Fear of losing not only our lives but our way of life and culture.
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On this board, and at FP I noticed several prominent poster, all of a "sudden" talking about a muslim takeover of the world, mostly just in the last six months.

About the time, curiously, that immigration and gays turned out to be issues the GOP couldn't run on.
 
My post showed a basic plan. Agreed, a lot of extrodianry things would have to happen. And I don't think the islamist that want to do this have really considered the geopolitical situations that would occur. But an incite into their plans and goals makes it much easier to deal with a problem that is growing and could create a lot of misery throughout the world. Including a posible major war.

The creation of a world caliphate is a fantasy, but its one they believe in. And that belief is why we are dealing with things now in iraq and afganistan. Its a very dangerous belief.

Ok I can agree with that. Its just that some of your other posts seem to indicate you are greatly threatened by these Islamic extremists so I thought you brought this up to illustrate the huge threat they posed.
 
IHateGovernment said:
You are right though about not talking about this before. Before it was bad enough we had to worry about terrorism. As that fear is waning we need a bigger and more menacing fear. Fear of losing not only our lives but our way of life and culture.
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Nope I'm not a GOP mouth piece. I just pointed out something I found. I may be way off base on it.

Fear is relative. When everything is going well and there's nothing to feel frightened about people tend to go back to their usual lives. The cause of the fear may remain but as long as it doesn't appear threatening no one pays attention.

This is a nation of instant gratifications. No one here wants to think in terms of long periods of time. So the plans I brought up are not feasible in that context.

And I ask again how much is a small percentage of 1.6 billion Usc?

This has been a good debate, no name calling.
 
ype a good debate Gaffer. and I don't have any real idea of the percentages, just feel that it is pretty low. If it was too high the whole of asia and the mE would be like Iraq and afganistan.
 
IHateGovernment said:
My post showed a basic plan. Agreed, a lot of extrodianry things would have to happen. And I don't think the islamist that want to do this have really considered the geopolitical situations that would occur. But an incite into their plans and goals makes it much easier to deal with a problem that is growing and could create a lot of misery throughout the world. Including a posible major war.

The creation of a world caliphate is a fantasy, but its one they believe in. And that belief is why we are dealing with things now in iraq and afganistan. Its a very dangerous belief.

Ok I can agree with that. Its just that some of your other posts seem to indicate you are greatly threatened by these Islamic extremists so I thought you brought this up to illustrate the huge threat they posed.
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No I don't feel greatly threatened. I think islam is a threat to the world period and if left unchecked the islamists will create a lot of havoc. For all the peaceful talk you hear on tv its still a religion based on violence.
 
Islam has to be looked at as a whole though. Parts of it are very violent others are peaceful and even progressive especially for the time period.

The problem is people use it as an excuse for violence but it is also possible to live a just and peaceful life being a follower of Islam. I know a good deal of Muslims and they are all pretty much decent people.

What the Muslim world needs is a renaissance and enlightenment period. Before those things happened in Europe the Christians there were just as bad yet the books never changed.
 
uscitizen said:
ype a good debate Gaffer. and I don't have any real idea of the percentages, just feel that it is pretty low. If it was too high the whole of asia and the mE would be like Iraq and afganistan.
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which is the reason we have to keep things under control in iraq and afganistan. If the islamist lose there then their overall plan is set way back.

The iranians, al quaeda, syria, hamas hezbollah and all the others are all working together for the same goal. They might hate each other but they still have the same goals. And if they could eliminate the west they would turn on each other like a pack of dogs.
 
Gaffer ai figure that is what will happen in Iraq no matter when we pull out. the will fight for control for several years and then settle down.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Islam has to be looked at as a whole though. Parts of it are very violent others are peaceful and even progressive especially for the time period.

The problem is people use it as an excuse for violence but it is also possible to live a just and peaceful life being a follower of Islam. I know a good deal of Muslims and they are all pretty much decent people.

What the Muslim world needs is a renaissance and enlightenment period. Before those things happened in Europe the Christians there were just as bad yet the books never changed.
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I said that before myself. Maybe what we are seeing is their renaissance.
 
uscitizen said:
Gaffer ai figure that is what will happen in Iraq no matter when we pull out. the will fight for control for several years and then settle down.
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yeah I think so too. As long as we are there they will stay somewhat quiet. But once we leave all hell will break loose. Same with Afganistan.
 
So we might as well leave tomorrow then Gaffer ? That is my opinion. I don't really think it will make much difference when we leave, they will just fight for control. I would like to be shown that I am wrong though and the pipe drean of a stable democracy would work.
 
uscitizen said:
Gaffer since I don't believe in heaven or hell...
And viewpoints of what heaven will be like differ greatly among those who do believe. Heaven would be hell for me if I had to listen to Pat Robertson types all day :)
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Do you really think he would be there to greet you? lol
 
Couldn't get back to this yesterday due to a pissy satelite connection because of a storm.

Pat Robertsons idea of heaven is sitting on a cloud looking at all the people burning in hell.
 
an interesting thing, there appears tro be another train of thought derived from scripture, that heaven will be here on earth, just that the earth will be renewed and the heathens will all be gone. So we will still have to work for food and such.
I expect that would burst a lot of peoples bubble :)
 
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