Why atheists, Satanists, heathens, etc can't be Americans or Westerners

StoneByStone said:
Actually, they're based on the morality of the Enlightenment, which was a departure from religion. Western values generally go against Christianity. For example, Christianity permits slavery, but slavery is considered wrong in Western Civilization.
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The Enlightenment wasn't a departure from religion, but it was a reinterpretation of it. Much of the Enlightenment was led by Deists, who were a unique form of Christians. The morals of that period do maintain distinct Christian characteristics.

That being said, European Christianity also has several pagan characteristics.
 
StoneByStone said:
The liberal Christians who fought against slavery were going against Christianity due to being influenced by Enlightenment philosophers. Just because someone is Christian, doesn't mean they're always fighting for Christianity. There are also Christians who fought for women's rights and LGBT rights. Humans are complicated. They hold on to religions they don't fully believe in and take action that goes against those religions.



It's not that it's a religion of slavery. It's that it's a religion that permits slavery.



I agree with that much. Christianity was very popular among slaves for a bunch of reasons. My only point is that Christianity permits slavery. It was only during the Enlightenment that we started having widespread debate over the morality of slavery and there was a push to end it.

And as for the role of Atheists, that's actually hard to say. Back then, especially in America, Atheists were ostracized from society. So we don't really know how many Christian Abolitionists were secretly Atheist. It would be like saying there were no gay people fighting against slavery. If I had to guess, I'd say there were, we just don't know who they were.
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Religion is like most other human things -- it evolves. And religion will often take on aspects of local preceding religions. That doesn't make it invalid. It does mean that interpretation is crucial, however.
 
Woko Haram said:
Religion is like most other human things -- it evolves. And religion will often take on aspects of local preceding religions. That doesn't make it invalid. It does mean that interpretation is crucial, however.
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If it can be what ever you want it to be, then what good is it.
 
jacksonsprat22 said:
Deism is really atheism by current standards.
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Sort of, but the ethics are distinctly Christian. It's like the difference between a cultural Jew and a Jew that actually believes in Yahweh.

Deists are culturally Christian, but they didn't put much emphasis on faith or the afterlife.
 
Trumpet said:
If it can be what ever you want it to be, then what good is it.
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Because it provides morals -- even for those who don't believe in it. This is shown by how secular humanists are essentially just Christians that don't believe in God or the afterlife. Their ethics are nearly identical to mainstream Christians.

However, as shown by the OP, interpretation is key. If it is interpreted in a fundamentalist way, it can become destructive.
 
Woko Haram said:
Because it provides morals -- even for those who don't believe in it. This is shown by how secular humanists are essentially just Christians that don't believe in God or the afterlife. Their ethics are nearly identical to mainstream Christians.

However, as shown by the OP, interpretation is key. If it is interpreted in a fundamentalist way, it can become destructive.
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Ok,
 
Penderyn said:
A great proportion of early Christians were slaves, and women. It was a vote of confidence in imperialism, male superiority big money, and in Trumpf, was it?
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Few surviving cultures into the modern age didn't engage in some form of imperialism. History is often just a matter of conquering or being conquered.
 
Woko Haram said:
Think of it like law in general. If a law is interpreted in a hurtful way, the results are hurtful. If it is interpreted in a reasonable way, it is reasonable in results.
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The right wing Christians have disguise right wing ideology as theology and have used a pseudo Christianity to indoctrinate the not so intelligent, I see this has very hurtful.
 
Trumpet said:
The right wing Christians have disguise right wing ideology as theology and have used a pseudo Christianity to indoctrinate the not so intelligent, I see this has very hurtful.
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That depends on how broadly you define right wing. Some evangelicals are hateful, but others aren't. I've known both types.

Plenty of people are personally conservative but believe in freedom of choice for society. I tend to be that way on most things despite being an atheist. For example, I think using most illicit drugs is a really stupid idea, but I'm ok with decriminalizing all drugs.

Plenty of conservative Christians believe that being gay is sinful, but they are ok with allowing gay civil unions (or sometimes even gay marriage).

It really depends on how someone meshes their personal views with the laws of society.
 
Woko Haram said:
Religion is like most other human things -- it evolves. And religion will often take on aspects of local preceding religions. That doesn't make it invalid. It does mean that interpretation is crucial, however.
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Well yeah, what makes it invalid is the superstitious bullshit. But it is totally true that religion evolves. Today's Christianity has been so influenced by the Enlightenment that it hardly resembles the Christianity of the Middle Ages or Roman Empire.
 
StoneByStone said:
Well yeah, what makes it invalid is the superstitious bullshit. But it is totally true that religion evolves. Today's Christianity has been so influenced by the Enlightenment that it hardly resembles the Christianity of the Middle Ages or Roman Empire.
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Christianity is right wing and racist.
 
Woko Haram said:
The Enlightenment wasn't a departure from religion, but it was a reinterpretation of it. Much of the Enlightenment was led by Deists, who were a unique form of Christians. The morals of that period do maintain distinct Christian characteristics.

That being said, European Christianity also has several pagan characteristics.
Click to expand...

Deism is just the belief that there is a god, but it plays no role in human lives. So I wouldn't say it's a form of Christianity. Aside from Deism being older than Christianity, the latter is all about an active god and a lot of mythology.
The Enlightenment can be called a reinterpretation of religion, but the reinterpretation was the secularization of religion and society. At the most, we can say Christianity became less Christian and more Greek and logic-based.
 
Trumpet said:
If it can be what ever you want it to be, then what good is it.
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It's a good propaganda tool. That's why the establishment likes it.

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StoneByStone said:
Well yeah, what makes it invalid is the superstitious bullshit. But it is totally true that religion evolves. Today's Christianity has been so influenced by the Enlightenment that it hardly resembles the Christianity of the Middle Ages or Roman Empire.
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I miss the torture, burnings, mutilation of the Pagans. And the Witches. Always something sinister in picking out who the Witches were.
 
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