Why Can't We Vacation like the French?

[Annie]

I teach, I get plenty of time off. Actually when I worked in the public sector I always got 2 weeks off or more. 2 weeks is about all I could be gone and not feel like I was going bonkers. I don't think I ever took more than a week off straight, except one 3 week vacation with a lot of traveling.

During summer I spend the first week or so cleaning closets, cabinets, drawers, and the basement. Usually I either get a part time job and take a grad class or do what I'm doing this summer, teaching summer school and reworking my curriculum.

It may be that Americans really do just like to work. As Damo said, I see no reason the government needs to 'guarantee' vacation, especially not 30 days.

 

[Cancel5]

I teach, I get plenty of time off. Actually when I worked in the public sector I always got 2 weeks off or more. 2 weeks is about all I could be gone and not feel like I was going bonkers. I don't think I ever took more than a week off straight, except one 3 week vacation with a lot of traveling.

During summer I spend the first week or so cleaning closets, cabinets, drawers, and the basement. Usually I either get a part time job and take a grad class or do what I'm doing this summer, teaching summer school and reworking my curriculum.

It may be that Americans really do just like to work. As Damo said, I see no reason the government needs to 'guarantee' vacation, especially not 30 days.

Best job I had was a bank, worked there five years and had five weeks vacation when I quit to be self employed and a stay home mommy!

 

[Damocles]

Spoken like a true republican

Well, outside of you giving a crap about other americans, there's always the possiblility that you could switch jobs and that vacation time won't carry over to the new job. Or, that your company could crater, you could get laid off, and have to accept a job with less vacation at a crappier company.

That's why nationally mandated employee vacation time would be different.

Yet it would not harm me if that happened. Once again, why would I need it to be mandated by law?

Oh, I see... You seem to believe that it is better if everybody has exactly the same thing and that we must therefore mandate it.

I believe in the TANSTAFL principle and that all mandates have a cost, even ones built on the "not fair" principle of government, in fact those have the highest cost. In this case there is no direct victim, therefore the government should not interfere. If workers feel that they are poorly treated they will create Unions (all part of Capitalism) and they will create the environment that more correctly reflects what they feel is needed.

This is much like attempting to gift people with freedom, if they do not fight for it they will not value it.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

10 days of paid vacation time is not unreasonable. There can be little quality of life in the US if we never have any time to spend with our families.

 

[Cypress]

Compare apples to oranges yourself. I don't see the similarity.

I'll agree that capitalism is imperfect, and that it can be unfair. But the one thing that I find sacred about it is the freedom it affords. Now, we can discuss forms of government, and the fact that labor law is what it is, but I'll take capitalism over other economic forms. I prefer my freedom to my vacation time.

I don't see how legally guaranteed vacation time impinges on your freedom one iota. We have all kinds of laws that protect the interests of capital and business.

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -- ABRAHAM LINCOLN

 

[LadyT]

I support all laws that increase vacation and add federal holidays.

 

[uscitizen]

Sure it is. And its also for businesses to decide what pay scales are. Government doesn't generate money, private sectors do.

Vacations are not a right, nor are jobs, or incomes. If you expect government to make them such, then Marx is blushing at your compliment.

government does not generate money ?
Heck they print all of it

Joking aside, you think nothing the government does generates money or that they have no impact on the economy ?

 

[cawacko]

Yet it would not harm me if that happened. Once again, why would I need it to be mandated by law?

Oh, I see... You seem to believe that it is better if everybody has exactly the same thing and that we must therefore mandate it.

I believe in the TANSTAFL principle and that all mandates have a cost, even ones built on the "not fair" principle of government, in fact those have the highest cost. In this case there is no direct victim, therefore the government should not interfere. If workers feel that they are poorly treated they will create Unions (all part of Capitalism) and they will create the environment that more correctly reflects what they feel is needed.

This is much like attempting to gift people with freedom, if they do not fight for it they will not value it.

Workers also have the option of going to a another job that offers more vacation time, better benefits etc.

 

[Cypress]

Workers also have the option of going to a another job that offers more vacation time, better benefits etc.

I vote this the all time lamest GOP talking point ever


Cawacko, not every american lives in LA, the Bay Area, or Atlanta. In small towns and in rural america, americans don't neccessarily have opportunities to shop around for jobs with better benefits.

 

[Cypress]

The minimum wage law has not affected anyone's freedom on this board.

Minimum environmental and safety standards for industry has not affected your freedom one iota.

A minimum paid vacation law would not affect your freedom one iota.

 

[Cancel7]

The minimum wage law has not affected anyone's freedom on this board.

Minimum environmental and safety standards for industry has not affected your freedom one iota.

A minimum paid vacation law would not affect your freedom one iota.

I agree.

I know, that's a shock!

 

[cawacko]

I vote this the all time lamest GOP talking point ever


Cawacko, not every american lives in LA, the Bay Area, or Atlanta. In small towns and in rural america, americans don't neccessarily have opportunities to shop around for jobs with better benefits.

GOP talking point? You are the one who posts from www.talkingpointmemos.com. That is not a GOP talking point. It is a free market libertarian belief.

Not everyone in the U.S. is so limited in their skill set that they have nothing to offer anyone and can only work at one job if they are so lucky to even have that.

 

[Cypress]

I don't wish people not to have vacations I just don't think it should be government mandated. We work in a competitive environment. Companies need to do what they can to hire the best talent. If companies don't offer vacation time, benefits etc. most people will not work for them.

Please give me a break about this "freedom" and "competition" stuff.

Even the brazilians give 20 days mandatory vacation.

You could take a poll of ALL these countries, and I doubt you would find one single poll respondent who felt mandatory vacation impinged on their freedom.

I understand that to Cons, as long as "they've got theirs", it doesn't matter what other americans have. Like you said, "tough luck go find another job". I say all americans should be guaranteed paid vacation. THAT is family values. And it doesn't "destroy" business. Other countries seem to manage just fine.

"In Austria, Finland, and France, the government mandates 30 days of vacation time for employees with at least one year of service, and a paid month off is an integral part of life. Other countries like Australia, Brazil, Germany, Norway, Spain, and the United Kingdom commit to at least 20 mandatory vacation days each year.

"The U.S. is woefully behind the other countries," says Carol Sladek, a senior work-life consultant for Hewitt. "The U.S. doesn't have any kind of federal law that requires employers to offer any vacation at all."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/070501/1vacationtime.htm

 

[Damocles]

I vote this the all time lamest GOP talking point ever


Cawacko, not every american lives in LA, the Bay Area, or Atlanta. In small towns and in rural america, americans don't neccessarily have opportunities to shop around for jobs with better benefits.

Only if they limit themselves, artificially, to a geographical boundary.

I do find it hilarious to have them say, "The US is behind..."

They fully are measuring progress solely by the fact that the US has less government intervention. I think that the US is way ahead of those other nations, and has been for some time.

The studies speak to "quality of life" solely measured by cultural norms. That people in the US are "not satisfied" is part of the culture, we consistently aim higher. "This is good, but not enough, I can do better," is something you will hear from an American. And such a culture has produced one of the most advanced societies where even those in "poverty" have so much more than the "rich" in some nations.

 

[cawacko]

Please give me a break about this "freedom" and "competition" stuff.

Even the brazilians give 20 days mandatory vacation.

You could take a poll of ALL these countries, and I doubt you would find one single poll respondent who felt mandatory vacation impinged on their freedom.

I understand that to Cons, as long as "they've got theirs", it doesn't matter what other americans have. Like you said, "tough luck go find another job". I say all americans should be guaranteed paid vacation. THAT is family values. And it doesn't "destroy" business. Other countries seem to manage just fine.

Liberals/Socialists/Communists don't like competition. It has nothing to do with already "having yours". Mandated vacation days by the government will have an economic effect on businesses and the economy. You are obviously free to believe the mandated vacation days are more important than the effect on the economy but you cannot ignore the effect it will have.

You are also free to feel you are a more compassionate person because you support this but I would argue the negative effect it would have on businesses and jobs (especially for the lower income workers) is far from compassionate.

 

[Cypress]

Only if they limit themselves, artificially, to a geographical boundary.

So a retail employee, or a minimum wage worker in Coos Bay Oregon, should just move to Portland, to find a job with paid vacation? Its their fault if they want to live in Coos Bay?

I do find it hilarious to have them say, "The US is behind..."

..."in vacation time". That is an entirely accurate statement.

They fully are measuring progress solely by the fact that the US has less government intervention. I think that the US is way ahead of those other nations, and has been for some time.

I don't know what you mean by "way ahead". We were talking about vacation. We're way behind.

The studies speak to "quality of life" solely measured by cultural norms. That people in the US are "not satisfied" is part of the culture, we consistently aim higher. "This is good, but not enough, I can do better," is something you will hear from an American. And such a culture has produced one of the most advanced societies where even those in "poverty" have so much more than the "rich" in some nations.

Take a scientific poll of americans. Anytime, anywhere. Americans want more paid time off to spend with their families.

According to Harvard economist Alberto Alesina, Europeans are happier, and have less stress and insecurity, which is good for health and longevity. Studies in the United States, for example, indicate that taking vacations cuts in half the risk of heart attacks for men. Longer, mandated vacations haven't undercut the competitiveness of other rich countries, and there's evidence that they increase labor productivity.

Plus, recent increases in the U.S. gross domestic product haven't significantly helped most Americans: The super-rich have captured most of the income gains. An accurate calculation of the gross domestic product-- subtracting such costs as crime, environmental depredations, militarism and declining social trust-- would actually show that growth in economic output has brought few, if any, real gains in welfare for American society. Indeed, CEPR economists David Rosnick and Mark Weisbrot argue that Europe's shorter work hours help the environment by reducing energy consumption and carbon emissions. ............

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13106

Internationally

• 20: the minimum number of annual paid vacation days guaranteed to workers anywhere in Europe.

• 30: the largest number of annual paid vacation days any country guarantees its workers. (France)

• 13: the largest number of annual paid holidays, over and above paid vacation days, that any country guarantees its workers. (Austria, Italy and Portugal)


United States

• 25%: the percentage of private-sector workers who receive no paid vacation or holidays.

• 69% versus 88%: the percentage of low-wage workers (less than $15 per hour) who receive paid vacation time versus the percentage of higher-wage workers who do.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-he-vacationsidde16jul16,0,4756737.story?coll=la-home-business

 

[Cypress]

Liberals/Socialists/Communists don't like competition. It has nothing to do with already "having yours". Mandated vacation days by the government will have an economic effect on businesses and the economy. You are obviously free to believe the mandated vacation days are more important than the effect on the economy but you cannot ignore the effect it will have.

You are also free to feel you are a more compassionate person because you support this but I would argue the negative effect it would have on businesses and jobs (especially for the lower income workers) is far from compassionate.

Mandate vacation time has nothing to do with communists or socialists. Every industrial country on the planet, and many large developing countries mandate minimum paid vacation. That's not communism. Have you been reading Lydon Larouche, Ayn Rand, or something?

 

[cawacko]

So a retail employee, or a minimum wage worker in Coos Bay Oregon, should just move to Portland, to find a job with paid vacation? Its their fault if they want to live in Coos Bay?



..."in vacation time". That is an entirely accurate statement.



I don't know what you mean by "way ahead". We were talking about vacation. We're way behind.




Take a scientific poll of americans. Anytime, anywhere. Americans want more paid time off to spend with their families.

What jobs don't offer vacation?

 

[Cypress]

What jobs don't offer vacation?

ROFLMAO!

You are sheltered, aren't you cawacko?

 

[cawacko]

Mandate vacation time has nothing to do with communists or socialists. Every industrial country on the planet, and many large developing countries mandate minimum paid vacation. That's not communism. Have you been reading Lydon Larouche, Ayn Rand, or something?

You throw out a comment like 'cons don't care as long as they get theirs" well I can easily throw out the comment that 'libs, socialists and communists don't like competition.'