Why Isn't Facebook Banning Anitfa?

[Pax Mongolica]

Yeah but basically unions are formed out of "Marxist struggle".

They can be, but most self-identified Marxists are advocating more than just unionization of labor. Typically, when someone is just pro-labor union, they don't call themselves "Marxist." That has a very specific connotation.

Marxism can be studied for the purpose of understanding how some labor reforms were pushed forward, but actual Marxist activists are advocating for revolution.

 

[AProudLefty]

They can be, but most self-identified Marxists are advocating more than just unionization of labor.

Did they come outright to suggest that?

Marxism can be studied for the purpose of understanding how some labor reforms were pushed forward, but actual Marxist activists are advocating for revolution.

Against the inequality between the working class and the greedy capitalism? Why is that wrong?

The black people certainly have had experience with the "struggle".

 

[Pax Mongolica]

Did they come outright to suggest that?



Against the inequality between the working class and the greedy capitalism? Why is that wrong?

The black people certainly have had experience with the "struggle".

You're not a Classical Liberal if you believe this. That's all I have to say. I see now that you carry water for this perspective.

 

[AProudLefty]

You're not a Classical Liberal if you believe this. That's all I have to say. I see now that you carry water for this perspective.

Believe what, exactly?

 

[Pax Mongolica]

Believe what, exactly?

If you can't connect the dots of the actions that Antifa and BLM do in terms of how riots and ideology are connected, then I don't know what else to say. If white supremists had spent multiple months last year destroying property and rioting, I don't think you'd have any doubts that they have Nazi sympathies, even if only some of them had mentioned support for Nazies. You'd know that they favor authoritarian rule and wouldn't assume otherwise.

Yet, when I can show that Antifa and BLM reference either Marxism or anti-capitalist support, you pretend that they just might want unionization of labor.

Also, a Classical Liberal wouldn't describe capitalism as "greedy." Most Classical Liberals don't sympathize with the economic rhetoric of BLM, because it's ahistorical anyway. The "struggle" blacks have had was against state-sanctioned institutions (like slavery) and state-imposed restrictions (like Jim Crow). None of that was the fault of capitalism itself.

Greed comes in when the state colludes with big business. That's not capitalism -- that's corruption.

 

[AProudLefty]

If you can't connect the dots of the actions that Antifa and BLM do in terms of how riots and ideology are connected, then I don't know what else to say.

There is no proof that Antifa and the BLM have anything to do with riots and lootings. The only thing they have are those pictures of burning cars, wrecked stores and such which proves nothing.

If white supremists had spent multiple months last year destroying property and rioting, I don't think you'd have any doubts that they have Nazi sympathies, even if only some of them had mentioned support for Nazies. You'd know that they favor authoritarian rule and wouldn't assume otherwise.

Of course there are always "sympathizers".

Yet, when I can show that Antifa and BLM reference either Marxism or anti-capitalist support, you pretend that they just might want unionization of labor.

Nobody claimed to be "anti-capitalist".

Also, a Classical Liberal wouldn't describe capitalism as "greedy."

I never said that capitalism is "greedy" I said that capitalists are greedy in regards to the class struggle.

 

[Pax Mongolica]

There is no proof that Antifa and the BLM have anything to do with riots and lootings. The only thing they have are those pictures of burning cars, wrecked stores and such which proves nothing.



Of course there are always "sympathizers".



Nobody claimed to be "anti-capitalist".



I never said that capitalism is "greedy" I said that capitalists are greedy in regards to the class struggle.

We can have productive conversations on other topics, but your cognitive dissonance on this topic is insurmountable. I already provided a link earlier from an Antifa expert (from a left source no less) that specifically talks about their anti-capitalist stance.

 

[AProudLefty]

We can have productive conversations on other topics, but your cognitive dissonance on this topic is insurmountable. I already provided a link earlier from an Antifa expert (from a left source no less) that specifically talks about their anti-capitalist stance.

LOL. "Antifa expert".

Antifa stands for "Anti-Fascist". Antifa is loosely organized and decentralized with no central authorities. They had Antifa organizations that opposed Hitler's regime.

Are you against Fascists and are willing to make sure they do not come to power? Well then congratulations you are Anti-Fascist!

 

[Pax Mongolica]

LOL. "Antifa expert".

Antifa stands for "Anti-Fascist". Antifa is loosely organized and decentralized with no central authorities. They had Antifa organizations that opposed Hitler's regime.

Are you against Fascists and are willing to make sure they do not come to power? Well then congratulations you are Anti-Fascist!

I hesitated to respond to this, because I feel it may be wasted effort.

Mark Bray is someone who specifically has studied the historical groups you reference. He wrote this: https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Anti-.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

He's not exactly a rightwinger or against Antifa's sentiments (at least regarding Fascism). I don't know what his economic views are, but that's beside the point.

So, yes, you can still be an expert on Antifa despite its decentralized nature. It just involves studying the multiple groups of Antifa that exist in the world. The American chapters differ somewhat from their European counterparts, but they do have some level of organization involved. Rose City is one of the most formalized chapters in structure.

 

[AProudLefty]

I hesitated to respond to this, because I feel it may be wasted effort.

Mark Bray is someone who specifically has studied the historical groups you reference. He wrote this: https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Anti-.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

He's not exactly a rightwinger or against Antifa's sentiments (at least regarding Fascism). I don't know what his economic views are, but that's beside the point.

So, yes, you can still be an expert on Antifa despite its decentralized nature. It just involves studying the multiple groups of Antifa that exist in the world. The American chapters differ somewhat from their European counterparts, but they do have some level of organization involved. Rose City is one of the most formalized chapters in structure.

Correct. There are various Antifa groups. Much like there are various Christian groups.

The common theme with Antifa? They are against Fascism. Well also white supremacy as well.

 

[Pax Mongolica]

Correct. There are various Antifa groups. Much like there are various Christian groups.

The common theme with Antifa? They are against Fascism. Well also white supremacy as well.

And all of them are composed of economic leftists. Some are Communist, some are socialist, and others are some version of anarchist (99% of which are varying forms of socialist). The only anarchist ideology that isn't socialist in some regard is anarcho-capitalism.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

If you don't think Antifa exists, then... I don't know what to say man. I guess the people who run this site don't exist then: https://rosecityantifa.org/

Hmm, an insignificant little group in Portland that is against Racism and Fascism in order to shut down neo-Nazi skinheads? I should be worried about them?
To be honest, I'm a helluva lot more concerned with Qanon, Proud Boys, 3-PerCenters, KKK, Arian Nation, Boogaloo Nation and the like. You know, the traitors who raided the Capitol on January 6th.
Aren't you?

 

[Pax Mongolica]

Hmm, an insignificant little group in Portland that is against Racism and Fascism in order to shut down neo-Nazi skinheads? I should be worried about them?
To be honest, I'm a helluva lot more concerned with Qanon, Proud Boys, 3-PerCenters, KKK, Arian Nation, Boogaloo Nation and the like. You know, the traitors who raided the Capitol on January 6th.
Aren't you?

If Q types had rioted in dozens of cities and burned buildings down in the process, yes.

Most of the right wing groups were not very prevalent over the last year and a half. And 1/6 was one day with less destruction than a lot of other riots that happened before.

What's abundantly clear is that this is not really about assessing danger. The media and people like yourself just like to excuse violence and destruction when it's done by people you agree with ideologically.

Even a lot of left leaning people outside of the US realize this. But hey, if you're ok with more riots in the supposed name of "social justice", so be it. I'll just be staying away from any major urban areas in the meantime.

 

[AProudLefty]

If Q types had rioted in dozens of cities and burned buildings down in the process, yes.

Most of the right wing groups were not very prevalent over the last year and a half. And 1/6 was one day with less destruction than a lot of other riots that happened before.

What's abundantly clear is that this is not really about assessing danger. The media and people like yourself just like to excuse violence and destruction when it's done by people you agree with ideologically.

Even a lot of left leaning people outside of the US realize this. But hey, if you're ok with more riots in the supposed name of "social justice", so be it. I'll just be staying away from any major urban areas in the meantime.

What buildings have been burned down?

And I noticed that you did not address the mass murderers.

 

[Pax Mongolica]

What buildings have been burned down?

And I noticed that you did not address the mass murderers.

You're really asking what buildings have been burned down? Ok, I know you're probably going to employ more mental gymnastics to deny the following, but here you go: https://nypost.com/2021/04/11/portland-ice-building-burns-amid-night-of-violent-protests/

As for mass murderers, what about them? No, I don't condone them. Yes, they are a problem. And being concerned about Antifa does not rule out also being concerned about dealing with mass murderers -- whether they are right wing or something else.

 

[AProudLefty]

You're really asking what buildings have been burned down? Ok, I know you're probably going to employ more mental gymnastics to deny the following, but here you go: https://nypost.com/2021/04/11/portland-ice-building-burns-amid-night-of-violent-protests/

I don't see any picture of a building being burned down in that article. Sorry.

As for mass murderers, what about them? No, I don't condone them. Yes, they are a problem. And being concerned about Antifa does not rule out also being concerned about dealing with mass murderers -- whether they are right wing or something else.

Pick your poison: broken store window or murdered store owner.

 

[Pax Mongolica]

I don't see any picture of a building being burned down in that article. Sorry.



Pick your poison: broken store window or murdered store owner.

I give up. I thought you were more intelligent than this, but I was very wrong. Now, you're just a waste of my fucking time.

 

[AProudLefty]

I give up. I thought you were more intelligent than this, but I was very wrong. Now, you're just a waste of my fucking time.

Well can you keep up with the discussion or not?

 

[Joe Capitalist]

If Q types had rioted in dozens of cities and burned buildings down in the process, yes.

Most of the right wing groups were not very prevalent over the last year and a half. And 1/6 was one day with less destruction than a lot of other riots that happened before.

What's abundantly clear is that this is not really about assessing danger. The media and people like yourself just like to excuse violence and destruction when it's done by people you agree with ideologically.

Even a lot of left leaning people outside of the US realize this. But hey, if you're ok with more riots in the supposed name of "social justice", so be it. I'll just be staying away from any major urban areas in the meantime.

What's abundantly clear is that this is not really about assessing damage to buildings and cars. It's about treason. The radical right wing extremists and people like yourself just like to excuse and whitewash The Capitol Riot because it was an assault on America similar to Pearl Harbor, JFK, RFK, MLK assassinations, 9/11, Timothy McVeigh Ok City bombing, 1921 Tulsa Massacre. I bet you were watching the TV on Jan 6 cheering on the deadly mob.

Hey, if you're ok with more riots to circumvent the Constitution and Democracy in the supposed name of "Stop the Steal' and Authoritarianism , so be it. I'll just be staying away from any major Federal Buildings and Trump rallies in the meantime.

Just remember. My side won. Yours didn't.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

What's abundantly clear is that this is not really about assessing damage to buildings and cars. It's about treason. The radical right wing extremists and people like yourself just like to excuse and whitewash The Capitol Riot because it was an assault on America similar to Pearl Harbor, JFK, RFK, MLK assassinations, 9/11, Timothy McVeigh Ok City bombing, 1921 Tulsa Massacre. I bet you were watching the TV on Jan 6 cheering on the deadly mob.

Question for you. In what way was the Capitol riot similar to that litany of other events you listed? What makes it similar to them?