Why The Right Will Never Allow Solution To Islamic Jihad Problem...

AnyOldIron said:
The problem with Bush's war on terror is that Bush seeks a military solution to a political/religious/ethnic problem that will only be reolved politically not militarily.

Exactly. To defeat an insurgency, you have to undermine it, by attacking the arguments they use to garner support. If you just hack off the top, it will simply regrow, like a weed.
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If you kill them all then there is no more problem, because they are all dead.
 
Dixie said:
so Dixie is saying, I take it, that any civilian residents of lands conquered or occupied by any foreign power have no inherent human rights.....even though the Geneva Convention is quite clear to the contrary.

What the fuck are you talking about? The GC is a treaty signed by nations, to respectfully honor certain treatment conditions for prisoners of war. It has absolutely nothing to do with a debate over the Israel/Palestine problem, the War on Terror, or anything we've been discussing in this thread.
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Dude, there's more than just "one" Geneva Convention. The First Geneva Convention dealt with prisoners of war. There have been other Geneva Convention treaties since the first one.
 
maineman said:
I suggest that perhaps you familiarize yourself with;

Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War Adopted on 12 August 1949 by the Diplomatic Conference for the Establishment of International Conventions for the Protection of Victims of War, held in Geneva from 21 April to 12 August, 1949 entry into force 21 October 1950

the civilians in the occupied territories are not prisoners of war. You have suggested that they have no claim to any human rights because Israel took their homes in time of war. I say you are full of shit...and that you know as little about the GC now as you did when I wiped your ass all over the playground with the GC three years ago.
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I've not said anything about any one's human rights Maine, that is you who keeps yelping about it. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to countries who aren't signatories, and it has nothing to do with conquest and occupation, after defeat in war. You don't seem to care too much about the human rights of Germans at the hands of the Russians after WWII, or the human rights of southerners after the Civil War, why the hell are you so concerned with Palestinians?
 
Cypress said:
Dude, there's more than just "one" Geneva Convention. The First Geneva Convention dealt with prisoners of war. There have been other Geneva Convention treaties since the first one.
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Yes, I know, there are four of them, and they all have to do with prisoners of war, and treatment of civilian populations in time of war, and absolutely nothing to do with conquest and occupation after defeat in war. Is Palestine a signatory to this treaty with Israel? If so, perhaps you have some legitimate point to make, if not... oh well, I hate it for you! It doesn't apply here!
 
Dixie said:
I've not said anything about any one's human rights Maine, that is you who keeps yelping about it. The Geneva Conventions do not apply to countries who aren't signatories, and it has nothing to do with conquest and occupation, after defeat in war. You don't seem to care too much about the human rights of Germans at the hands of the Russians after WWII, or the human rights of southerners after the Civil War, why the hell are you so concerned with Palestinians?
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yes you HAVE said something about human rights. YOu have said that since the countries that originally owned the occupied territories attacked Israel that this meant that the residents of those territories also supported the attack of Israel, and therefore whatever they had coming to them at the hands of the Israelis from 1967 up until today was totally justified and that they had no recourse, no right to expect better treatment at the hands of the Israelis...that they had it coming to them. And when have I ever not cared about anyone's human rights? For you to say "You don't seem to care too much about the human rights of Germans at the hands of the Russians after WWII, or the human rights of southerners after the Civil War" is a total fabrication on your part. I would ask that you produce a quote of mine that expresses any sort of lack of concern or care for either of those groups, or have the grace to retract that lie.
And the Geneva Convention I listed has absolutely nothing to do with prisoners of war. Haven't you gotten you ass handed to you ad infinitum about the GC to stay clear of yet another ass whupping? My GOD...it's like you don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.
 
Syria (the Golan Heights) Jordan (the west bank and East Jerusalem) and Egypt (the Gaza Strip) are all signatories of the Geneva Conventions.

Are you really this dumb or is this just part of that Anne Coulter-esque persona you adopt?
 
Dixie said:
Yes, I know, there are four of them, and they all have to do with prisoners of war, and treatment of civilian populations in time of war, and absolutely nothing to do with conquest and occupation after defeat in war. Is Palestine a signatory to this treaty with Israel? If so, perhaps you have some legitimate point to make, if not... oh well, I hate it for you! It doesn't apply here!
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"Yes, I know, there are four of them, and they all have to do with prisoners of war, and treatment of civilian populations in time of war, and absolutely nothing to do with conquest and occupation after defeat in war."


Fourth Geneva Convention

Part III. Status and Treatment of Protected Persons

Section I. Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories



Syria and Lebanon are still officially in a state of war w/ Israel. Jordan was officially still in a state of war with israel unitil 1994.
 
yes you HAVE said something about human rights. YOu have said that since the countries that originally owned the occupied territories attacked Israel that this meant that the residents of those territories also supported the attack of Israel, and therefore whatever they had coming to them at the hands of the Israelis from 1967 up until today was totally justified and that they had no recourse, no right to expect better treatment at the hands of the Israelis...that they had it coming to them.

I didn't say anything about how any one had any thing coming to them. Those are your words, not mine. I simply pointed out, the areas Israel occupies, is not occupied because Israel is just bent on aggression, it is a result of them being attacked and responding to that attack. I'm sorry Egypt and Syria lost, but that isn't my fault, it's how wars work out, had they defeated Israel, it would have been different. If they had left Israel alone, they wouldn't have lost the land in battle, and there would be no issue. I have a hard time finding sympathy for them, and I don't think Israel is obligated to apply the GC on the Palestinians, because blowing yourself up on a bus, is not exactly keeping with the guidelines of the GC.
 
Dixie said:
Because the territory was conquered and occupied after the residents decieded to wage war on Israel. When you pick up a rock an throw it at someone, they have every right to kick your ass and you have no right to complain when they do.
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it is in this quote where you clearly state that the residents of occupied territories have no right to complain regardless of their treatment at the hands od the Israelis. the residents of the occupied territories may be palestinian by ethnicity, but they were clearly citizens of Egypt, Jordan and Syria before Israel occupied their land...and you say that they have no right to complain if Israelis kick their asses. I would suggest that you don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about (as if THAT is any big surprise) and that the Geneva Convention which you don't know shit about clearly addresses the treatment of citizens of occupied territories and affords them human rights which you clearly state here, they do not have any right to.
 
Cypress said:
"Yes, I know, there are four of them, and they all have to do with prisoners of war, and treatment of civilian populations in time of war, and absolutely nothing to do with conquest and occupation after defeat in war."


Fourth Geneva Convention

Part III. Status and Treatment of Protected Persons

Section I. Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories



Syria and Lebanon are still officially in a state of war w/ Israel. Jordan was officially still in a state of war with israel unitil 1994.
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Oh well, I guess that means the Palestinians need to be held accountable for violating the GC, huh? The Israeli's have NO obligation to abide by the GC, you've not shown where they have violated any one's human rights, and it doesn't matter anyway, the Palestinians are blowing up innocent Israeli's! This is TYPICAL Liberalism in Action! Just throw morality and ethics down the shitter, and attack the holy fuck out of innocent Jews with impunity, and when they respond by kicking ass, curl up in a fetal position and claim you are a fucking VICTIM! Get your head out of your ass and understand the world don't fucking revolve around Liberalist ideals of holding hands and picking daisies! Israel was attacked, they responded, and now they occupy the land. Let it serve as a lesson and reminder to others, not to jump on Israel and expect it to go well. That's all I have to say, don't come telling me how these people deserve a goddamn thing, they attacked Israel first, and while I can sympathize with humanitarian needs, I am not willing to "blame the Jew" here. Sorry!
 
Dixie said:
Oh well, I guess that means the Palestinians need to be held accountable for violating the GC, huh? The Israeli's have NO obligation to abide by the GC, you've not shown where they have violated any one's human rights, and it doesn't matter anyway, the Palestinians are blowing up innocent Israeli's! This is TYPICAL Liberalism in Action! Just throw morality and ethics down the shitter, and attack the holy fuck out of innocent Jews with impunity, and when they respond by kicking ass, curl up in a fetal position and claim you are a fucking VICTIM! Get your head out of your ass and understand the world don't fucking revolve around Liberalist ideals of holding hands and picking daisies! Israel was attacked, they responded, and now they occupy the land. Let it serve as a lesson and reminder to others, not to jump on Israel and expect it to go well. That's all I have to say, don't come telling me how these people deserve a goddamn thing, they attacked Israel first, and while I can sympathize with humanitarian needs, I am not willing to "blame the Jew" here. Sorry!
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Translation of Dixie's bluster: "I was WRONG about the Geneva convention....so what???!!!.... (curse, curse, curse, cuss, cuss, cuss)"

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1) DIXIE: "Yes, I know, there are four of them, and they all have to do with prisoners of war, and treatment of civilian populations in time of war, and absolutely nothing to do with conquest and occupation after defeat in war."


2) Fourth Geneva Convention

Part III. Status and Treatment of Protected Persons

Section I. Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories
 
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Dixie said:
Oh well, I guess that means the Palestinians need to be held accountable for violating the GC, huh? The Israeli's have NO obligation to abide by the GC, you've not shown where they have violated any one's human rights, and it doesn't matter anyway, the Palestinians are blowing up innocent Israeli's! This is TYPICAL Liberalism in Action! Just throw morality and ethics down the shitter, and attack the holy fuck out of innocent Jews with impunity, and when they respond by kicking ass, curl up in a fetal position and claim you are a fucking VICTIM! Get your head out of your ass and understand the world don't fucking revolve around Liberalist ideals of holding hands and picking daisies! Israel was attacked, they responded, and now they occupy the land. Let it serve as a lesson and reminder to others, not to jump on Israel and expect it to go well. That's all I have to say, don't come telling me how these people deserve a goddamn thing, they attacked Israel first, and while I can sympathize with humanitarian needs, I am not willing to "blame the Jew" here. Sorry!
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your quote directly above clearly indicates that you do not sympathize with any humanitarian issues whatsoever..... you have never been to the west bank or the golan or gaza....I have spent a great deal of time in all three.... and the people there were not the aggressors in any of the wars fought against Israel...they were the civilians caught in the crossfire... and now caught in occupied territory... and you have gone on record as saying that Israeli soldiers can kick those civilians at will and they have no rights to complain...YOUR words, not mine.
 
you have never been to the west bank or the golan or gaza....I have spent a great deal of time in all three.... and the people there were not the aggressors in any of the wars fought against Israel...they were the civilians caught in the crossfire... and now caught in occupied territory...

You have no idea of where I have and haven't been, and it doesn't matter, it's not relevant to the debate. The people there are still sending suicide bombers into Israel, that hasn't stopped. They aren't "innocent" as long as they are electing Hammas and blowing up innocent people in terror acts! They have been offered peace, they have been offered land, I watched them move thousands of Jews from their homes and vacate the West Bank, and all that resulted was more violence in the form of terror from Palestine.
 
Prakosh said:
The problem with Bush's war on terror is that Bush seeks a military solution to a political/religious/ethnic problem that can and will only be resolved politically not militarily. If it could have been solved militarily Israel would have already solved it in Israel. Some 60 years later they are still battling the same forces that they began battling when they settled the country after the WWII and began the genocide that sought effectively to drive the Palestinians from their homeland.
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the allies solved hitler's political/religious/ethnic problem militarily....chamberlin tried to solve it politically
 
I disagree with this. The IDF is nothing like the PLO. Israel has repeatedly been willing to come to the table, make concessions, give up land, and declare cease-fire, in the name of peace. The Palestinians have repeatedly reneged on their end of the bargain, balked at more than reasonable concessions, and continued to inflict barbaric and evil terrorism on the innocent people of Israel.

Israel has repeated renaged on peace talks by continuing expansion of its settlement of occupied lands, has utilised its support in the west so that it appears reasonable when it offers to the Pals unviable deals, just to see them refused so that they can seem to be the 'good guys', all the while whilst inflicting terrorism on innocent Palestinians, through kidnapping, killing, maiming and destroying homes.

Israelis are not calling for the Palestinians to not exist, to be ran into the Mediterranean Sea, and they never have or will. To compare the two as equal in any respect, is just ignorance or blindness, or anti-Semitic.

Many Israelis have called for the Pals to not exist, I have seen many Israeli websites that deny the Palestinians even exist, that call for Israel to occupy most of the ME in a Hitler-style move for 'breathing space'.

The IDF/Israeli government act in a very similar way to the Palestinian terrorists, only with better weaponry. To not recognise the comparison is myopia and the selected support of terrorism.

This doesn't surprise me from a man who on this thread called for terrorist actions against civilians.

How does it feel to support terrorism, as long as those that conduct it look like us?
 
If Christians were divided into two decisive groups, the majority of which, was not radical, and a minority comprised of an extreme and perverted radical element, which was using the religion to promote their warped ideology (like the Klan), and there were churches and schools across America that were preaching and teaching hate and promoting this warped ideology, I would hope that someone would stand with the majority of my religion and defeat this evil, and if it took bombing those churches and schools, I would completely understand.

Bollocks. If Muslims from another country were attacking churches and schools in the US, even if the Muslims justify it by stating that some of the Xtians are extremist, the whole Xtian population would turn to fight the Muslim attackers.

To deny this is just bare-faced BS.
 
Because the territory was conquered and occupied after the residents decieded to wage war on Israel. When you pick up a rock an throw it at someone, they have every right to kick your ass and you have no right to complain when they do.

So why did Germany have to give back occupied France? Shouldn't they now own France? The French declared war on the Germans....
 
Because the territory was conquered and occupied after the residents decieded to wage war on Israel. When you pick up a rock an throw it at someone, they have every right to kick your ass and you have no right to complain when they do.

Also, using your logic, as the Israelis used terrorism to create the state of Israel, and as the US declares terrorism asymetric warfare, this justifies the Palestinians use of force against the Israelis.
 
Well, this is subject to debate, the residents of the Golan Heights were clearly not on the side of Israel, were they? Just as Hammas will hide behind the skirt of the Lebanese people, the enemies of Israel have always been cowards.

As opposed to the Israelis, who are so brave that they fight children with rocks using tanks and automatic weapons, and instead of using suicide bombers, bomb civilians from US supplied aircraft.

The Israelis are just so brave....
 
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