Zelenskyy now says he will sign the deal...
- Thread starter Damocles
- Start date
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
What woke sheeplings like @christiefan915 never learned in school:
After the US had saved Britain from near-certain defeat by Germany in World War One, the British Ambassador to Washington DC, Auckland Geddes, paid a call on the US Secretary of State, Charles Evans Hughes, expecting a friendly conversation.
Instead, he was met with a yelling tirade.
Hughes raged and shouted at Geddes that America had just saved Britain’s bacon, and we had better be grateful from now on.
In a voice rising to a scream, Mr Hughes (a normally staid, liberal-minded type), yelled at His Majesty’s envoy: ‘You would not be here to speak for Britain – you would not be speaking anywhere, England would not be able to speak at all. It is the German Kaiser who would be heard if America – seeking nothing for herself but to save England – had not plunged into the war and won it.’
Around this time, Mr Hughes’s boss, Democrat President Woodrow Wilson, was telling aides of his plans to build a huge new US Navy bigger than Britain’s then was. And if we would not limit the size of our fleet, ‘there will come another more terrible and bloody war and England would be wiped off the face of the map’.
n fact, within a few short years, after negotiations during which fist-fights almost broke out between British and American admirals, we were indeed forced by US blackmail into limiting the size of the Royal Navy, spelling the end of our days as a world power.
To the Americans, Britain was about as important as Serbia, and they didn’t hide it. Wilson, very unlike Donald Trump, was a generally mild-mannered college professor, not a foul-mouthed rabble rouser. But the message is the same. The US, since it realised its almost boundless power, can do what it likes.
As I’ve pointed out before, during the 1956 Suez Crisis, the chief of the US Navy, Admiral Arleigh Burke, seriously discussed opening fire on British warships, in a conversation with Secretary of State John Foster Dulles.
And when, for cheap electoral reasons, Democrat Bill Clinton decided in 1993 to support and befriend Sinn Fein’s Gerry Adams, the British Embassy in Washington was brutally cut out of the loop of knowledge.
Our then Premier, John Major, felt so humiliated that relations between him and President Clinton (never good) almost entirely broke down. There is no ‘special relationship’, and the US has no permanent friends.
What happened to Zelensky was this. Donald Trump comes from an older tradition of American foreign policy, called ‘America First’. This was an actual movement, begun by students and then sweeping the country, which in 1939 and 1940 campaigned hard against the US aiding Britain against Hitler.
This wasn’t, as some now believe, a pro-Nazi outfit. Many of its early members were liberals, even socialists. It was just an expression of a very old American desire to stay out of foreign quarrels, first proclaimed by George Washington himself at the foundation of the nation.
With Donald Trump in the White House, this policy has come back with a bang. It has pushed aside the neo-conservative idealists, who sought to impose what they saw as democracy on the whole world. And it has ended a matching policy of trying to keep Russia from rising again, at any cost.
Quite why British and European leaders were so keen on the neo-cons and their wild, invariably disastrous adventures, I have no idea. I suspect they just wanted to suck up to America whatever it did, and now look foolish because Washington is under new management, and they will – in the end – have to be just as servile to the opposite policy.
If they had only kept their cool, and continued to express doubts about expanding Nato up to the gates of Moscow (always likely to cause trouble) they might be in a better position now.
And Ukraine would still be at peace with its ill-tempered neighbour, its cities unravaged and its young men alive, rather than mouldering in war graves.
www.dailymail.co.uk
After the US had saved Britain from near-certain defeat by Germany in World War One, the British Ambassador to Washington DC, Auckland Geddes, paid a call on the US Secretary of State, Charles Evans Hughes, expecting a friendly conversation.
Instead, he was met with a yelling tirade.
Hughes raged and shouted at Geddes that America had just saved Britain’s bacon, and we had better be grateful from now on.
In a voice rising to a scream, Mr Hughes (a normally staid, liberal-minded type), yelled at His Majesty’s envoy: ‘You would not be here to speak for Britain – you would not be speaking anywhere, England would not be able to speak at all. It is the German Kaiser who would be heard if America – seeking nothing for herself but to save England – had not plunged into the war and won it.’
Around this time, Mr Hughes’s boss, Democrat President Woodrow Wilson, was telling aides of his plans to build a huge new US Navy bigger than Britain’s then was. And if we would not limit the size of our fleet, ‘there will come another more terrible and bloody war and England would be wiped off the face of the map’.
n fact, within a few short years, after negotiations during which fist-fights almost broke out between British and American admirals, we were indeed forced by US blackmail into limiting the size of the Royal Navy, spelling the end of our days as a world power.
To the Americans, Britain was about as important as Serbia, and they didn’t hide it. Wilson, very unlike Donald Trump, was a generally mild-mannered college professor, not a foul-mouthed rabble rouser. But the message is the same. The US, since it realised its almost boundless power, can do what it likes.
As I’ve pointed out before, during the 1956 Suez Crisis, the chief of the US Navy, Admiral Arleigh Burke, seriously discussed opening fire on British warships, in a conversation with Secretary of State John Foster Dulles.
And when, for cheap electoral reasons, Democrat Bill Clinton decided in 1993 to support and befriend Sinn Fein’s Gerry Adams, the British Embassy in Washington was brutally cut out of the loop of knowledge.
Our then Premier, John Major, felt so humiliated that relations between him and President Clinton (never good) almost entirely broke down. There is no ‘special relationship’, and the US has no permanent friends.
What happened to Zelensky was this. Donald Trump comes from an older tradition of American foreign policy, called ‘America First’. This was an actual movement, begun by students and then sweeping the country, which in 1939 and 1940 campaigned hard against the US aiding Britain against Hitler.
This wasn’t, as some now believe, a pro-Nazi outfit. Many of its early members were liberals, even socialists. It was just an expression of a very old American desire to stay out of foreign quarrels, first proclaimed by George Washington himself at the foundation of the nation.
With Donald Trump in the White House, this policy has come back with a bang. It has pushed aside the neo-conservative idealists, who sought to impose what they saw as democracy on the whole world. And it has ended a matching policy of trying to keep Russia from rising again, at any cost.
Quite why British and European leaders were so keen on the neo-cons and their wild, invariably disastrous adventures, I have no idea. I suspect they just wanted to suck up to America whatever it did, and now look foolish because Washington is under new management, and they will – in the end – have to be just as servile to the opposite policy.
If they had only kept their cool, and continued to express doubts about expanding Nato up to the gates of Moscow (always likely to cause trouble) they might be in a better position now.
And Ukraine would still be at peace with its ill-tempered neighbour, its cities unravaged and its young men alive, rather than mouldering in war graves.
PETER HITCHENS: Trump's White House tirade can be GOOD for the world
Well, at least the silly myth that America is the world's kindly sugar daddy has been killed off forever.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Diesel
Verified User
Go figure, right? That MAGAts are hypocritical assholes without standards? I had no idea.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Listen up, retards; the US 'helped the UK out' in WW1 because it had lent them so much money that it was afraid of not getting it back if they lost (they defaulted anyway) . In WW2, the US & USSR got dragged into a war that Britain and France started, and turned it to their own ends.
I hope a deal can be signed, but the sticking point was not the minerals deal, it was security. Two or three times, depending on perspective, Ukraine has signed "deals" that Putin within two years, broke and came for more land.
Zelenskyy Says He’ll Sign Minerals Deal And Urges US To ‘Stand More Firmly’ For Ukraine After Oval Office Clash
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”www.forbes.com
I haven't chimed in on this... but need to. As someone that worked in Naval Intelligence in this very arena that meeting did not make me feel safer or want to cheer on how "tough" either of them was acting.
I was hopeful that something could be done to get it signed though. Having interests there gives the US incentive to help, add security, and to actually maintain a presence depending on how the "peace" looks afterward. Telling them they are "on their own" like that was not quite what I was expecting. Zelenskyy and Trump in a penis measuring contest... <smh>...
That being said, it looks like we may have a path back to the deal.
A cease fire without some security is a poor choice for Ukraine, we know that because it will not last. If The Felon cant see his way to provide that security agreement, then maybe Europe will, and the deal can be signed without the U.S. offering the needed security.
How many deals, without security, were given Hitler when he continued to invade its neighbors and build a huge military.
Now, I am not saying Putin is the same as Hitler. I am saying that the strategy has been very similar. Obama made the mistake Trump is trying to make, and Zelenskyy is trying to avoid again... A deal that leads to another land grab in a few years.
The mess in the White House could/should have been avoided. I hope a deal is in the works.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Diesel
Verified User
Are you completely fucking insane? "A friendly Russia that is aligned with the US and Europe"? You are so full of shit that I genuinely don't know how you look at yourself in the mirror. There is no such possibility as "a friendly Russia". This sequence of events is not difficult to understand for people who retained the ability to think. Trump wants to be Putin because his micro dick is perpetually semi hard for totalitarian power, unchecked authority, and Little Man Syndrome military parades. Putin compliments Trump because he knows that he will do and say whatever he wants in return. Trump is not a peace president. Trump is a Putin puppet. This is undeniable.
Diesel
Verified User
It's not a disconnect. It's the talking point from state media that the mouth frothing cult keeps repeating without taking a breath.
Zelenskky in the Oval Office:
Musk in the Oval Office:
At least Zelenskky had a fucking collar. The MAGAts are so full of hypocritical shit that it's coming out of their ears.
They have had at least two peace deals where Putin then took more land in two years. I deal with a security agreement is the only way forward if Ukraine does not want to be Russia. Then Bulgaria.
I want lasting peace, and I am hopeful. Russia should not benefit for its aggression. No Appeasement of Putin.
If that happens without a security agreement, there will be a 4.
4... Putin invades Ukraine again in 3 years.