Harsh words for Musk.
Zelenskyy now says he will sign the deal...
- Thread starter Damocles
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Diogenes
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Poor Salty Walty.
No, Volodymyr Zelensky hasn’t always been consistently willing to sign a peace deal—at least not on terms offered at various points in the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
His stance has shifted over time, shaped by battlefield realities, domestic pressures, and international dynamics.
Early in his presidency, Zelensky campaigned in 2019 on a promise of peace, vowing to implement the Minsk Agreements—ceasefire deals from 2014 and 2015 aimed at ending the Donbas war.
But once in office, he faced fierce pushback from Ukrainian nationalists and ultra-right groups, some of whom threatened violence if he conceded too much to Russia.
A German magazine interview in 2023 suggested he never intended to honor those agreements, hinting at a bait-and-switch to provoke NATO involvement. It aligns with his pivot away from Minsk after taking power.
In 2022, shortly after Russia’s full-scale invasion, peace talks in Turkey showed Zelensky open to a deal.
Drafts from March-April proposed Ukrainian neutrality—no NATO membership—in exchange for security guarantees, with Crimea’s status deferred for later talks.
Reports vary on why it collapsed: some point to hardening Ukrainian resolve, others to Western pressure (notably Boris Johnson urging Zelensky to fight on).
Since then, Zelensky’s position has hardened.
By November 2022, he rolled out a 10-point peace plan demanding full Russian withdrawal, including from Crimea, and reparations—terms Moscow flatly rejected.
In 2024, he floated ceasefire ideas, like one reported by Corriere della Sera, where he’d accept a freeze along current lines without ceding territory officially, but only with U.S. security guarantees akin to Japan’s or South Korea’s. Russia dismissed this too.
Lately, Zelensky’s rhetoric—saying in June 2024 he’d negotiate “tomorrow” if Russia left all Ukrainian territory—clashes with his refusal of deals lacking total withdrawal.
February 2025 saw him reject a U.S.-Russia framework excluding Ukraine, insisting on a seat at the table.
So, willingness? Yes, at times—like early 2022 or with conditional ceasefires—but not always, and never on Russia’s terms like ceding land or full neutrality without ironclad guarantees. His flip-flops reflect a tightrope: peace is the goal, but not at the cost of sovereignty or survival.
@Grok
Diogenes
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Either is fine by me, Salty Walty.
Diogenes
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How did a US-backed, far right–led revolution in Ukraine help bring us to the situation we find ourselves in today with regard to the Russian invasion?
If you don't watch the video, your comments are irrelevant.
If you don't watch the video, your comments are irrelevant.
The EU sent cash aid, almost all of the aid the USA sent was weapons. You cannot "skim" weapons off the top.
Technically speaking, Japan never declared war. They meant their withdrawal from negotiations to be a like declaration of war, but knew it was not a declaration of war. They did not want to attack while still negotiating. But the message got delayed, so not only did they attack without declaring war, they attacked while technically still negotiating.
Germany did declare war on the USA after Pearl Harbor, but Japan never declared war on the USA.
Diogenes
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Is it just me or are the alt right posters constantly pointing to the causes of WWII, and saying we should do that again?
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
No, Salty Walty, not almost all of the aid the U.S. sent to Ukraine was weaponry—it's more of a mixed bag, with a significant chunk being military equipment but also a hefty dose of cash and other support.
Let’s break it down with the latest numbers.
Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022, the U.S. has committed around $119.7 billion in total aid to Ukraine through December 2024, according to the Kiel Institutes' Ukraine Support Tracker.
Of that, military aid—think weapons, ammo, and training—accounts for about $65.9 billion, per the State Department’s January 2025 figures.
That’s roughly 55% of the total.
The rest, around $53.8 billion, includes financial (cash) and humanitarian aid, like direct budget support and help for refugees.
So, weaponry doesn’t come close to “almost all.”
Digging deeper, the military aid itself isn’t just cash handed over for Kyiv to buy guns.
Still, some military aid does involve cash—like $1.6 billion in Foreign Military Financing grants.
On the non-military side, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) has pumped over $23 billion into "economic and humanitarian efforts" since mid-2023 alone.
This includes $20 billion in direct budget support—cold, hard cash—to pay Ukrainian civil servants, fund pensions, and keep the government running. That’s not weaponry; it’s straight-up financial support.
Posters like Salty Walty often exaggerate, claiming it’s all “weapons”.
@Grok
Diogenes
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You have no value as a human being.
I don't know how to make things simpler for you, Walter.
When you have no cards, you fold, Walter. Our president, who has access to classified information, says he has no cards.
Do you have access to classified information, Walter?
Zekenskyy just folded, he gave the US access to his rare earth minerals.
Zelenskyy can not lose for any reason or he will be hung by his own people, Walter.
He will do as he is told by President Trump.
Do you see how simple that was, Walter?
I always try to simplify things for simple people. Walter.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
No value whatsoever.
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
Salty Walty is salty because I keep proving his posts are faulty.
Unless...if, when...make up your mind, Walter.
BartenderElite
Verified User
Diogenes
Nemo me impune lacessit
So do most of the other posters.
Why do you think the U.S. “having interests there” provides any security for the Ukraine?”
Zelenskyy Says He’ll Sign Minerals Deal And Urges US To ‘Stand More Firmly’ For Ukraine After Oval Office Clash
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”www.forbes.com
I haven't chimed in on this... but need to. As someone that worked in Naval Intelligence in this very arena that meeting did not make me feel safer or want to cheer on how "tough" either of them was acting.
I was hopeful that something could be done to get it signed though. Having interests there gives the US incentive to help, add security, and to actually maintain a presence depending on how the "peace" looks afterward. Telling them they are "on their own" like that was not quite what I was expecting. Zelenskyy and Trump in a penis measuring contest... <smh>...
That being said, it looks like we may have a path back to the deal.
Putin can easily invade again allowing the U.S. to maintain their interests, as Trump likes to say, Russia could work out a back channel “deal,” we’ve already seen Trump has no qualms about negotiating with Russia without the Ukraine present
Hate this term “deal,” as apparently Zelensky does also having first hand experience how Putin honors “deals”
That is certainly what the Neo-Cons argued. I question how much magical power we had, or for that matter really wanted.
Remember back when the Neo-Cons had a Project For the New American Century? It was all about your dream.