1 In Every 99 Adult Americans Now Behind Bars

Watermark said:
America has 300 million people in total. China has 1.5 billion. For China to have as many people in prison per a capita as the US, they'd need to put 10-20 million people in prison.
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So how many do they have in prison, and how many have been executed per year?
 
gonzojournals said:
The War on Drugs is wrong, and the laws should be changed. However, it undermines the integrity of the law if the law is not enforced as long as it remains on the books.
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No, it does not need to be enforced regardless of what common sense tells us. The law itself is not enforced with any integrity in the first place. That's part of what makes it an injustice!

This prison population doesn't look like the American population in any way, and that's because of the unequal enforcement.
 
What we need is a uniform jury instruction that allows juries to nullify EVEN if the state proves that someone was in possession of a drug. I live in a state that puts lots of simple users on probation, but many of you live in states that provide for steep sentences even for possession. Shit in NM possession of less than 100 pounds has a MAX sentence of 18 months. We give people deferred sentences and conditional discharges here all the time for anything under 10 pounds.
 
gonzojournals said:
Yes, it does need to be enforced. Wow, look how far that got us. Guess you should start looking into Rogerian argument.
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I offered you an illustration of why people should be rejecting the law at the basic levels they are capable (as Socrtease points out, the jury), and that is because the law is applied without the integrity you say law should have.

You should be responding to that.
 
Adam Weinberg said:
I offered you an illustration of why people should be rejecting the law at the basic levels they are capable (as Socrtease points out, the jury), and that is because the law is applied without the integrity you say law should have.

You should be responding to that.
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I have already said what I think about these people being prisoners-- do I hate that they are there because of drugs charges? Yes.

Are they innocent? No.
 
gonzojournals said:
I have already said what I think about these people being prisoners-- do I hate that they are there because of drugs charges? Yes.

Are they innocent? No.
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It is irrelevant whether they are guilty or innocent (some are innocent) to my point. The point is that the state applies the law in an unequal fashion, so it's not as if it serves the spirit or purpose of the rule of law to begin with.

If anything, it serves to empower the state to persecute the underclass for the peace of mind of the classes that are far less likely to be punished by the government for the same crime.

I was recently instructed by a judge vetting me for a jury that I would have to enforce the law as he determined--it was a drug case and I was removed, naturally--but he took the position that his instructions as to the law should be followed because everyone should be tried by the law equally.

But that is a senseless illusion if the people being brought in before the state are charged without equality under the law in the first place.
 
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Adam Weinberg said:
It is irrelevant whether they are guilty or innocent (some are innocent) to my point. The point is that the state applies the law in an unequal fashion, so it's not as if it serves the spirit or purpose of the rule of law to begin with.

If anything, it serves to empower the state to persecute the underclass for the peace of mind of the classes that are far less likely to be punished by the government for the same crime.
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The fact that the state applies the law unequally does not make it any less of a law--- if you think that argument will save you, go smoke up inside a courthouse (to ensure arrest) and then let me know whether or not they let you off because you don't think the law should be enforced.

The law exists, the only way to change that is by making it not a law.
 
gonzojournals said:
The fact that the state applies the law unequally does not make it any less of a law--- if you think that argument will save you, go smoke up inside a courthouse (to ensure arrest) and then let me know whether or not they let you off because you don't think the law should be enforced.

The law exists, the only way to change that is by making it not a law.
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My hypothetical arrest as you described it would be much more in line with the spirit of the law than a process in which no-knock or warrant-less raids are permitted, and predominantly so in particular communities.

It's much more understandable to enforce the law against those who openly flaunt their offenses than to organize the machinery of the state particularly against the poor and minorities.
 
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